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Offline ElleKitty

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Anyone knowledgable on Chopped coins?
November 16, 2007, 08:35:26 AM
In the winding path of Darkside collecting, I find I'm leaning more and more toward coins that feature Chopmarks on them.  It's odd, since to me the chops deface the coin, but the marks themselves are interesting, fascinating, and historical.  I'm beginning to see them as additions rather than defacements.

Does anyone here have an interest in Chops, or know anything about them?  I've been searching the internet to read about them, and it's been great.  (Also possibly interested in purchasing or trading for chopped silver.)








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scottishmoney

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Re: Anyone knowledgable on Chopped coins?
November 16, 2007, 10:04:26 AM
I have a 1782 8 Reales that I purchased out of a junkbox that is similar to your 1792, I got mine for $5  because of the chopmarks, but that was then.  Now these are recognised as real collectables and not defaced coins.  I have seen these go for over $100 lately, the chopmarks if they appear to be valid, add to the interests of the piece.

 


Offline ElleKitty

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Re: Anyone knowledgable on Chopped coins?
November 16, 2007, 09:37:06 PM
Today in my reading, I discovered that there are basically two types of chopmarks.  There are the type 1 chops, which are seen on the two Mexican 8 Reales coins above.  Then, the American and British Trade Dollars both display the type 2 chop marks.  Type 1 can be found through out the history of Silver Coins in China, but the type 2 chops are seen only during the latter half of the 19th century.

The Chinese basically determined foreign silver coins to be similar to their ancient sycee silver ingots.  However, the sycee were governed strictly by laws requiring the mint/forgers to be held responsible if the fineness of the silver was less than expected.  The coins from foreign governments had no such laws governing them, and so the system of 'chopping' them to display the interior was used heavily. 

Many coins in China were hollowed out and filled with lead, or counterfieted so that the Chinese merchant community had strict policies on what authentications must be done before any coin could be accepted.  Thus, the special chopmarks developed over time.  The Mexican Colonial Dollars became the currency of choice, for many years!  When Mexico declared independence from Spain, the Mexican Eagle Dollars took the place of the Colonial Currency, about -fifty- years after the declaration.

Toward the end of the 19th century, Chinese merchants began to see the foreign trade dollars as being defaced by the multitudes of chops added to them. In some instances, the only original surface left on the coin was the VI, VII of the King's name from Spain.  They changed to the larger size chopmark, but used less and less of them.

What is amusing, is that so many countries/traders tried to pass counterfeit or devalued coins to the Chinese. Perhaps we ourselves set the stage for China becoming the World Capitol of fake coins!

Do add this coin to my collection?
 
   Cat?      Australian?              US?                Really Old?
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Yes  No     Yes   No              Yes  No                Yes   No
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scottishmoney

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Re: Anyone knowledgable on Chopped coins?
November 16, 2007, 10:30:45 PM
I believe it would be quite interesting if you could tie certain chopmarks to a particular merchant or trading institution.  It was interesting that you mentioned the later fakes, when I was in China last year I saw a lot of them, varying sizes and designs of Morgan Dollars with dates like 1797 etc.  What was interesting when I found people that had these, I could get them to come down to my price with much haggling on everything but these fakes.  So I never got any.  Nor did I see fakes of the Spanish or Mexican 8 Reales.

 


Offline ElleKitty

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Re: Anyone knowledgable on Chopped coins?
November 17, 2007, 10:41:25 AM
There's a book out, by F. Rose that deals exclusively with chopmarks.  I'm certain it is absolutely possible to tie some chops with their owners, and probably impossible to identify others.  Some chops just aren't clear, and many merchants used psuedo-characters with hidden meanings that were unique to their business.  These psuedo-characters were made by putting two or more usual chinese characters together into a single symbol.

This is such fascinating stuff, I'm going to have to try to track a copy of Rose's book down just to read it.

Do add this coin to my collection?
 
   Cat?      Australian?              US?                Really Old?
  |    |        |      |                   |    |                   |     |
Yes  No     Yes   No              Yes  No                Yes   No
  |       |     |       |                 |    |                   |     |
(YES!) (?) (Yes!) (?)           (Nope) (?)             (YES!) (?)
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Anyone knowledgable on Chopped coins?
November 17, 2007, 10:56:18 AM
I have my 8 Reales sitting in a roll of similar coins in some bank somewhere, I will like to find it and image it sometime.