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Offline Templar

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CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 20, 2012, 10:07:36 PM
IT COMES TO MY ATTENTION THAT THE CHINESE AND JAPAN MAY COME TO BLOWS OVER SOME ISLANDS ??? ??? ???

THE ONLY PROBLEM I CAN SEE IS THAT WE--THE UNITED STATES DECLARED THAT JAPAN COULD NOT HAVE ANY MILITARY FORCES EXCEPT FORA TYPE OF NATIONAL GUARD FOR INTERNAL PROBLEMS AND THAT WE WOULD PROTECT THEM IF ANYONE HARASSED THEM ???

TELL ME IF I AM WRONG BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN 3 TIMES THIS YEAR ALREADY!

IS WE IS OR IS WE AIN'T GONNA FIGHT CHINA IF THEY JUMP ON JAPAN?????

DRUID
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BARD
TIME WAS INVENTED SO EVERYTHING WOULD NOT HAPPEN AT ONCE!
 


Offline Pocketcoins

Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 12:58:50 AM
I'm hopping we keep out of it. Never no good comes from medling in other folks business. Them folks in Washington will let the people here at home stave plume to death while off sticking there nose in every one else business.   ::)

 


Offline Sap

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 01:59:05 AM
The Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands lie in between Taiwan and Okinawa. As is the case with most modern territorial disputes, the islands are uninhabited barren rocks; the argument is not so much about the islands themselves, as it is about the control of marine resources (fish and petroleum) within the Exclusive Economic Zones surrounding the islands, should they be recognized as part of the sovereign territory of one country or the other.

A similar dispute has festered for decades in the South China Sea over the Spratly Islands, though in that case there are five/six territorial claimants rather than just the two/three (the uncertainty in numbers being caused by whether or not China and Taiwan ought to be considered two separate countries). So far, Red China has resisted going to war over either of these causes, though their recent buildup in naval power gives them much more capability to actually enforce their will in remote places if they choose to do so.

So much for the history lesson; your question was on possible futures, and specifically on whether the United States would be bound by treaty to come to Japan's aid if war actually broke out over these islands.

Japan's post-war pacifist Constitution in theory prevents them from forming a military force capable of launching an invasion of another country, or from actually declaring war - so if a war starts, it will have to be started by the Chinese. In practice, Japan does indeed have an army, navy, air force and other things a modern wealthy country needs for self-defence; they simply call them by different names and nominally place them all under civilian command to avoid violating their own Constitution. The Japanese Navy Maritime Self-Defense Force, though legally just a part of the police force, is more than twice the size of the Australian navy. Military analysts both within Japan and outside generally believe it to be capable of doing what it's name implies: defending Japan from invasion. Facing a major full-scale invasion from a superpower (such as China or Russia), the JMSDF should at least slow the enemy down until the Americans come to the rescue.

And yes, there is a treaty between the United States and Japan in which America basically promises to defend the Japanese home islands against hostile invasion; US military bases are scattered across Japan to enable them to do this. But importantly, outlying islands are not included in the treaty. The southernmost of the Ryukyu Islands, for example, lie to the south of the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands and, although they are internationally recognized as belonging to Japan and have a local population of over 100,000 people, America is not obliged to automatically respond to defend the Ryukyus if they are invaded by a hostile power (though of course Japan is free to ask for American assistance in such a circumstance; America is also free to act unilaterally to defend Japanese islands even without a formal Japanese request). Okinawa is one of the central Ryukyu Islands and has the largest US military presence of all the Japanese islands, so that island is probably safe; it's the islands south and west of Okinawa that are most vulnerable, as there is no formal US presence down there.

The Chinese, of course, are fully aware of the reduced legal obligations placed by the Americans on the outlying islands. If the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands fall to China and America does nothing but whimper a lot, then I think the southern Ryukyus could well be next in their sights.

So, as I understand it, if China decides to actually use their sabres instead of just rattling them, but the war is limited to just the outlying islands, then America would be free to help Japan if asked - and would also be free to tell Japan that they're on their own in this regard.

KoCT #21

The early bird gets the worm, sure, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 


longnine009

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 02:51:24 AM
China didn't do too well with their invasion of Vietnam- 1979?
But at least they had the sense to pack up before they got
in over their heads.

Let's do the Rothchilds thingy and supply arms to
both sides. ;D

 


Offline Templar

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 03:43:55 AM
NOW THATS THE IDEA---SELL SAKE TO THE JAPONESE AND FORTUNE COOKIES TO THE CHINESE AND STAY NEUTRAL----WAIT WHAT AM I SAYING---IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE..............MAYBE THE TWO COULD WORK TOGETER AND SEE WHO DOES THE BEST JOB OF COUNTERFEITING U.S.COINS--------

IT MAY BE TIME TO BUY LAND IN MANCHURIA----WIDE OPEN--GREAT VIEWS---AND A CHANCE OF NOT BEING DETECTED IN THE MILLION MILES OF COUNTRYSIDE---I ALWAYS WANTED TO LIVE IN A YURT AND EAT GOAT.....

THEY ARE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAY.........

DRUID
HUMAN  RIGHTS DEFENDER
SWAGMAN/HOBO
BARD
TIME WAS INVENTED SO EVERYTHING WOULD NOT HAPPEN AT ONCE!
 


longnine009

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 07:00:57 AM
Or let them invade Japan and talk pootie-poot into
invading China while the cat's away.

 


Offline Triggersmob

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 11:53:37 AM
If the U.S. comes to Japans aid, then China might ask U.S. to pay up it'd debt.
They may have to give China, Alaska (maybe California and New York as well)
just to pay the debt.

Steve
(From Western Australia)

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See my gallery here, now with over 15,000 images...
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Offline Eringobraugh

Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 01:40:38 PM
Quote
If the U.S. comes to Japans aid, then China might ask U.S. to pay up it'd debt.

If the US goes to war with China,It may just give the US the reason its needs to NOT pay its debts to China!!!!

"If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing."
Napoleon Bonaparte
 


Goose

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 21, 2012, 02:36:31 PM
Heck, keep Alaska and without any reason whatsoever, give China Kalifornia and New York. Overall, the U S would be a better place then.

 


longnine009

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 22, 2012, 07:41:13 AM
That's perfect--east coast west coast colonies.  Nancy can be
Empress Wharf Hag in the west and Bloomie can be
Emperor Douchbag in the east.

 


Offline Pocketcoins

Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 22, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
Well I've never been to New York, but know some pretty good folks from there so lets keep New York, give them California and help them get hold of Mexico.  ;D  ;D  Good thing about living in Kentucky is you can't trade me off unless you are willing to give access across some other states.  ;D

 


longnine009

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Re: CHINA VS. JAPAN?
September 22, 2012, 03:18:23 PM
They can't  have Mexico. There's too much
oil and PM's there. We'll keep New York and
give them D.C. That way we're not really
giving them anything that they don't already
own.