Grading gold coins

[Paint Your Wagon]

Once in a while I may post pics here of coins I graded
This coin is still for sale

I graded this coin as MS64 and was ready to bid but my friend and mastergrader said MS63 because of a scratch over the sun on the reverse I had overlooked . It is a common year but we never saw a MS64 "ungraded" that is unslabbed

http://cgi.ebay.fr:80/PEROU-UNA-LIBRA-OR-GOLD-ORO-1917_W0QQitemZ250293149380QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250293149380&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[Paint Your Wagon]

On the reverse above the shield there is a sun with rays around it at 12 o'clock position
On this minuscule sun there are two minuscule scratches which are enough to drop it one point to MS63

We may spend up to half an hour to grade a coin . If there is enough pixels like 300 dpi we get the grade .

I came to the conclusion that most coins we grade , we reject ; so we may as well share if anybody is intrested in buying
I know this Parisian shop .
This guy ships worldwide but unfortunately shipping is 25 Euro outside Europe

My friend is trying to get all the series in high MS ; he got some in MS67 but this non key coin escapes us in high grade

[Paint Your Wagon]

This coin we rated both as cleaned ( XF )
My friend thought it was chemically cleaned possible by electrolysis because of the porous look to it
my initial idea was that it was a poured fake but I know the vendor well and he would not sell fakes


http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=360085390982&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=023

[Paint Your Wagon]

This is one of those coins that are so thin that they normally are thorn or have a fold in it
On technical grounds I would rate this MS64 but look at the price 2018 Euro for a leaf of hammered gold wow

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190245939990&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

[Paint Your Wagon]

Low XF grade but variety without dot in B position
asking price four times melt  NOT ME going to pay that

http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Belgie-20Fr-goud-1865-L-Winner_W0QQitemZ190252365879QQihZ009QQcategoryZ45344QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Paint Your Wagon]

This coin is sold as FDC which means MS65
I got a lecture from my friend and he graded it MS62 ( I graded it XF)
So I am not going to bid

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=380063394210&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=025

[Paint Your Wagon]

Keep in mind that I've never graded this type of coin before, but a MS65, I think not! In fact, with the marks that I observed at this magnifucation, I would go no better than MS60 and feel like I was grading very loose. At least on the same scale as I'm used to grading American gold coins. Don't blame you for not bidding.

Thank you
I thought the original design had completely detailed hair whence I graded XF also the field beyond the lettres seems to have more lustre then the field outside the lettres
Turns out the design did not have all hair and MS62 looks reasonable in that case
MS60 is an ugly beat up scratched and bagmarked thing you puke when you look at it
My bad since I can buy many post 1850 Napoleon III at melt at the exchange agents in at least XF I did not do my homework on this type of 20 FF
( which I do not really collect and I have two good specimen allready)

[Paint Your Wagon]

This is the lecture I got

 The first things I look at on these are:
>>
>> 1.) The beard (if any detail is missing it goes to XF)
>> 2.) The mustache
>> 3.) The privy marks
>> 4.) The leaves on the reverse

I myself looked at cheak and forehead but since they have no detail they cannot move it into XF
They can only show slide but still stay MS

And like I explained the hair was designed incomplete  Which on a Belgian Leopold I would slide it into XF

[Paint Your Wagon]

This is what an MS60 might look like
No loss of detail by wear so above XF
No loss of lustre by circulations so above AU

http://cgi.ebay.de/100-FRANC-1913-FRANKREICH-REPUBLIQUE-GOLD-GOLDBARREN_W0QQitemZ270273703245QQihZ017QQcategoryZ28677QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Paint Your Wagon]

What possibly could have happened to make this coin look this way? Looks like elfs got to it with teeny little ball-pean hammers or something.

First the lighting and the phototaking are wrong they highlight every defect instead of showing the strike lustre ; the coin may be more reasonable in hand .
Second the coin may have been banging against other coins in a bag on a stagecoach or a horseback . They did have tight portelouis which are tubes in leather with a cap . But these were only used after the bank gave them to a person .

[Paint Your Wagon]

Yuck
Harshly chemically cleaned VF
Could maybe be recolored by the right use of a bunsenburner and somebody who has done it before but VF does not warrent the trouble
of the work and maybe ruining the coin even further
In my opinion a hight price for a VF trouble coin


http://cgi.ebay.com/SPAIN-ESPANA-ISABEL-II-GOLD-100-REALES-1862-XF-EBC_W0QQitemZ180284526894QQihZ008QQcategoryZ39481QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[Paint Your Wagon]

This guy used a photoshop or other smudge tool especially visible on the right laural branch on the reverse
Being sold as practically uncirculated yayaya that is a new grade MS59 



http://cgi.ebay.es/100-REALES-DE-ISABEL-II-EN-CONSERVACION-EXCELENTE_W0QQitemZ360089129393QQihZ023QQcategoryZ21131QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[scottishmoney]

This guy used a photoshop or other smudge tool especially visible on the right laural branch on the reverse
Being sold as practically uncirculated yayaya that is a new grade MS59 



http://cgi.ebay.es/100-REALES-DE-ISABEL-II-EN-CONSERVACION-EXCELENTE_W0QQitemZ360089129393QQihZ023QQcategoryZ21131QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Holey cowabunga, that smells like dunga and imaged cleaned up big time.  I can smell that through the monitor.

[Paint Your Wagon]

He is a ridiculous Photoshopper

He should have put saturation to zero which makes the side black and white . Then he should have set to uniform grey allover the coin . Then he should have used overlays to color the side a strikelustre goldcolor and the red spots would be gone too .

Of course here in Europe by law the purchaser from a professional seller has 7 days time from receipt to return without giving a reason 
This protection works for any purchase at distance ( by computer or thelephone or lettre etc)

[Paint Your Wagon]

Offered as stgl which is MS63 or better
NO Way josé this is maximum a MS62 with the big ding on the cheeck and lustre cannot be evaluated at the bad angle at which the photo is lighted so it could be a lot less then MS62
Another vendor who hopes his buyer does not know how to rate a coin

http://cgi.ebay.de/VENEZUELA-20-Bolivares-GOLD-1910-stgl-Sehr-selten_W0QQitemZ160286246442QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160286246442&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[Paint Your Wagon]

Louis d'or à la croix du St esprit 1719 Paris

I was really surprised when the vendor puts this up as VF
But then again I have seen this one only once in 5 years so it must be relatively rare

My coindealer friend agrees with the vendor

centering isn't too bad but if you look at the back you can see the dots in the middle of the pads at the ends of the rays coming out of the circle -- some are worn and some are completely gone so it drops to vf-xf. considering they seem to be high enough to wear quickly and easily i would guess it's VERY hard to find any in high grade. if true then it should still have high relative value since, despite a bit of slide, i see no other details missing.



http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380077314377

[Paint Your Wagon]

Up to a few months ago we agreed with NGC allmost allways but this has been changing lately
The coffinmaker's grades have become erratic
This coin is missing mayor detail on the obverse and should be VF

http://cgi.ebay.com:80/1866-Australia-1-Sovereign-Gold-Coin-NGC-XF-45_W0QQitemZ360102388370QQihZ023QQcategoryZ3369QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Paint Your Wagon]

A pity but this splendid coin is nothing but a beautifully retoned VF-Xf 




http://cgi.ebay.fr:80/LOUIS-XV-Louis-dor-aux-lunettes-1726-GOLD_W0QQitemZ170277388699QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170277388699&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[Paint Your Wagon]

From a US powerseller Allmost uncirculated NOT likely 
Unless the almost was a nearly almost 94 years ago
http://cgi.ebay.com:80/a1worldtrading-1912-PERU-UNA-LIBRA-GOLD-COIN_W0QQitemZ280284783585QQihZ018QQcategoryZ547QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Paint Your Wagon]

MS63 but it took me half an hour to find out it is only 0.11 ounces
Too small for me

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310102787161

[Paint Your Wagon]

They ask six times the price of gold cause the coffin says it is MS 

http://cgi.ebay.fr/FRANCE-20FRANCS-OR-CERES-1850A-SPLENDIDE-NGC-MS64_W0QQitemZ330293223692QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_GW_Monnaies_Pi%C3%A8cesFrancs?hash=item330293223692&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[scottishmoney]

Raw, but just about as attractive as one I have in an MS-65 coffin:

[Paint Your Wagon]

For your pleasure Sirikit MS67 or better
My best friend the american coindealer says he never saw one so well struck
12% over melt on ebay germany and mine now

[Paint Your Wagon]

MS64 I just got