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longnine009

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Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 09:50:22 AM
They both seem to doing pretty well.  But now "Who's Better, Who's Best?"

I was listening to the Radio last night. They were giving forecasts of 2008 and it didn't sound too good. One guy who wasn't there still sent in an email to say he thought there was going to be a world wide economic collapse in 2008 but what does it matter since we were all going to die anyway from a pandemic. And I though I was cynic.

So I'm curious what do people like, gold or silver? Where are headed? More inflation or deflation.

I'll say this about Ole "Bubbles" (Greenspan) he sure knew when to leave.

 


Offline AdamL

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 10:23:25 AM
I think gold, silver, and platinum will all do well this year. I like silver coins best. I guess that might be because I can't afford much gold or any platinum though.

-Adam
Knight Of The Coin Table #103
 


Offline Humpybong

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 10:28:31 AM


What has happended to the link we had to view current prices?

I need to know if I am a millionaire yet????

 ;D     ;D     ;D

Barry
Brisbane, Australia
Forum Administrator

"Experience enables you to recognise a mistake when you make it a again"
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 11:22:55 AM
Hate to say it, but now isn't the time to get in, that time has passed.  Two years ago silver was $6.50 an oz, and nobody was taking.  Now it is over $15, it has done better than gold, but gold has appreciated well too in that time ;D

 


Offline TwoShadows

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 02:31:09 PM
Percentage wise I think silver would be the best bet should prices continue to rise. Of course I have been saying that for years. Silver is far more affordable on the average budget so it is attractive to many. I think each individual needs to understand why they are buying silver and what they expect. Silver bullion, such as silver eagles or maple leafs are very beautiful coins, but should be treated as silver bullion based on the silver market. Silver coinage, especially the classics, hold collector value and can and will have large variations on prices based on condition and availability which basically is demand versus supply. All can change at any given time so it is also important to know how long do you intend to hold such items and at what point or price will you sell? These are questions we all need to ask ourselves when playing the gold or silver game if it is investment driven. Set your goals and be prepared to wait, perhaps a lifetime, to realize you profit potential. Coins I have sold in the last few years have been very very good to me but many of them were held for years and years before offering up such potential. I buy everything with long term in mind and should a coin or set of coins explode quickly I then must decide whether to take advantage of the jump in value or hold on for the next jump, when ever that may be.
Actually I tend to see gold and silver as the old saing goes, "Someday you get the bear and somedays the bear gets you." It is nice to get the bear once in a while and I savor those moments when I guessed right but also know, given the chance, the bear most likely will get even! When it comes to money everything is a gamble but a little effort, learned knowledge and a few years of hobby wisdom helps level the playing field a tad bit. More importantly, at least to me, is the enjoyment the hobby brings and having a little fun. A little profit now and then is just icing on the cake!

Terry
Knight #1

"Life's a Lemon, I want my money back!" (Meatloaf)
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 03:35:47 PM
You know the dollar is in deep "do-do" when even models can figure it out.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3132484.ece

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 02, 2008, 10:40:25 PM
You know the dollar is in deep "do-do" when even models can figure it out.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3132484.ece

Even some "rapper" said he wanted to be paid in €uros, but who cares?  Frankly I want to be paid in 1 oz gold slugs ;D

 


Offline TwoShadows

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 03, 2008, 12:43:55 AM
Well Scottishmoney I am not quite so particular! If they don't have gold slugs I can live with silver, platinum, pallidium or copper. Just as long as I get paid!!!
Now I don't know how things are across the nation but my dealer is getting pretty squirrelly when it comes to buying gold. Especially in a larger quanity. I can remember him getting burnt a year or so ago when silver jumped up. He bought a bunch of Eagles at the time and soon after they arrived silver dropped a few bucks. He as been pretty gun shy ever since! Right now, in my humble opinion, is NOT a good time to be buying either gold or silver in quanity so I am patiently waiting for a drop. It appears I may have a long wait so I will bide my time with my traditional purchase of Eagles, Pandas, Koalas, Kangaroos and Maple leafs for the family collections (usually 4 per year of each) but won't add much more silver unless it is a collectable coin or something with a buffalo on it! (darn buffalos are killing me)! I need a few classics for friends in Europe so I will just concentrate on some of my trades to pass the time away.

Terry
Knight #1

"Life's a Lemon, I want my money back!" (Meatloaf)
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 03, 2008, 08:59:48 AM
Right now I think the key thing with metals, especially gold, is cannibalization. You may have heard this called "globalization." The really sick part is, it encourages a country to find a way to destroy  it's own currency so they can export more and import less. It's not even the so called "race to the bottom." It's cannibalization. 

In the United States it's: "We built this city on Mr. Bubbles." a.k.a Alan Greenspan's credit expansion. It's drying up right now in real estate and I think it might do the same this year in the stock market. The liquidity is just a pipe dream--credit expansion fueling "Ole Bubbles" bubbles. When it disappears I think the U.S is going to go into a period of deflation. It might not, "Helicopter Ben" might start throwing money out of the helicopter as he once said he would do to prevent a bad recession.

Maybe he will, but I don't believe him.  What better way for well heeled speculators to make a fortune than to accumulate tons of wall paper dollars at wall paper prices and than the fed allows the house of cards to come down and bring on deflation that automatically adds "value" to the currency? It will just be another twist on Hamilton's Assumption Law that made many well to do currency speculators even richer while the soldiers who fought in the Revolutionary war starved to death.
"The blood of soldiers makes good varnish for your carriage sir..."

Yes, it could be different this time.  But why should it be? The corruption we have today isn't even the little sneak thief  that Hamilton was.  This stuff is  "in your face" corruption.

If we do end up with deflation there may be a window to buy metals at lower prices. At least that's what I'm hoping for. In the long run I believe gold and silver are going to do very well but you have to survive the short runs.


 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 03, 2008, 09:11:25 AM
I believe that inflation, and perhaps even hyperinflation is a much more likely scenario for the US economy.  The government is printing paper and creating mountains of debt that are beyond comprehension.  You can build a house of cards and it may stand for awhile, but then a breeze comes along in the form of China calling it's loans to the US due and selling off it's US$ reserves and it all tumbles.  If you doubt me on inflation, perhaps you have not been to the grocery store recently, where in the last year prices have gone up a minimum of 10% and as much as 40% percent, this due to rising fuel costs, production costs etc.  The only thing succoring the rise in fuel and commodity expenses for me is that noble yellow metal.

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 03, 2008, 11:10:22 AM
You might be right. I think the war in Iraq  will be more than enough to ensure  inflationary pressures. But there are deflationary pressures as well. You mentioned the grocery store. Does the happy homeowner who until recently had been living off the rising value of his home still going to the grocery store to buy Delmonico steaks or  do  beanie weenies fit his budget now? Is he still driving the 8 mpg SUV or the city bus?

I'm not aware of even one historical bubble that ended on an inflationary note. And I think the real estate debacle is hundreds times worse than they are making it out to be. It's deflationary effects snowballing through the economy may very well over come any inflation that's here now. Or maybe not.  But I think  we are going to find out this year.

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 03, 2008, 01:30:06 PM
Deflationary pressures only exist currently in real estate, it had to happen.  But inflationary pressures, with US debt, trade deficits, the decline of the dollar when so many consumer goods are imported etc. will more than offset deflation. 


 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 05, 2008, 03:37:23 AM
I read 5 gold forums and am active on one and nobody agrees

First I think there may be a significant difference between Canada having resources and the US and of course the unpegged Euro and probably Aussie dollars

Gold has made historical highs whilst silver has not

There is no solution to the mountain of debt and there are several scenarios one more painfull then the other
Hyperinflation followed by Deflation is one
Stagflation is another
Both counting on India and China etc keeping some growth going for the all world

Some people believe that by 2011 the DOW and gold will be equal again whether it be at 10 000 or 2200
2200 dollars an ounce is the inflation adjusted hight of 850 in 1980

Short term it stands to reason that gold will shoot up to 1020-1050 and then temporarily drop back to 850

The best overview of gold is weekly here
http://www.investmenttools.com/futures/metals/welcome_to_the_page_about_gold.htm

The best chart ever is Australian point and figure chart
http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/gold-pf.html

It may still be time to put 10% of your spare money in gold since there is several years left in this move
So my vote goes with gold even percentage wise


Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 05, 2008, 12:09:38 PM
Silver has appreciated a wee bit better percentage wise than gold, but carries greater risks in volume.  Personally I care little for silver because it is a hassle to store at any rate.  But it does carry small value for menial purchases should such needs arise in economic calamity.

 


Offline TwoShadows

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 23, 2008, 03:22:13 PM
Going back and re-reading the above postings I find a lot of information and wisdom that many collectors and new comers should be reading. Free first hand advice is hard to find in a world full of hype and getting info from anyone who in NOT trying to sell you something is hard to find these days! It amazes me how the stock market is hyped every day on the news channels but seldom a word about precious metals? The average individual, who really has no knowledge of either, is fodder for the wolves in todays market.

Terry
Knight #1

"Life's a Lemon, I want my money back!" (Meatloaf)
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 23, 2008, 05:08:47 PM
The stock market is like Fox Maulder:  "I wanna believe."

Either that or a small child who hasn't yet learned what pain is.


 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 24, 2008, 12:35:57 AM
Going back and re-reading the above postings I find a lot of information and wisdom that many collectors and new comers should be reading. Free first hand advice is hard to find in a world full of hype and getting info from anyone who in NOT trying to sell you something is hard to find these days! It amazes me how the stock market is hyped every day on the news channels but seldom a word about precious metals? The average individual, who really has no knowledge of either, is fodder for the wolves in todays market.

My father in law gave me good advice several years ago when it came to investing in metals, go with your gut feeling, but go for the longterm.  When gold was going up a couple of years ago it was soooohhhh tempting to sell and take a quick profit, but what has gold done since then? Nearly $300 more per ounce.

Again with the stock market, go with good companies, right now the energy sector is good; and plan out a 5 year scenario.  Too often people look for short term profit, and not long term sustainability.  I worked for an energy company(petrol namely) and kick myself for having left and taken my stock options and not left them with the company( has since split twice, each time returning to it's pre-split price.)  But I was young and stupid.  Now I am actively seeking re-employment with said firm.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 24, 2008, 04:27:52 AM
Right now the best advice I heard was Gold and Goldmining and Feed or Food ( cows or humans )
Well I cannot store 1000 tons of corn so I will stick to the former two  ;D

My savvy grandfather gave me two advices of which I only followed one
He said buy gold and learn Russian

Today it would be buy gold and learn Chinese ( for other reasons then the Russian)

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 24, 2008, 06:08:06 AM
Я ГАВИРЮ ПА РУССКИЙ ДЛЯ МНЁ СЕМЯ СВИВО НА УКРАИНА

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 24, 2008, 10:42:29 AM
Я ГАВИРЮ ПА РУССКИЙ ДЛЯ МНЁ СЕМЯ СВИВО НА УКРАИНА

That would be a  Structured Investment vehicle  "created" in Greenwich   Connecticut. And it's symbolic meaning translates to "Catch me if you can"  ??  ;D 

Well, of course  that's the big difference between the United States and Asia and Russia. We produce SIV's, CDO's and slogans such as "deficits don't matter" and "we're all dead in the long run" while the Asians are still producing products.  The little engines that could. They're so cute aren't they?

It's just a remarkable coincidence that the same people sitting on a Mt. Everest of money are the same people who produce actual products, produce more than they consume and have the highest saving rates in the world. And apparently do believe that deficits and debt matter.

Learning Russian might not be that bad of an idea.  In truth I think Japan is going to rise like the Phoenix  one day. But Pootie Poot has balanced his budget, eliminated his national debt and pays his bill on time. And Russia  too is  sitting on an ocean of oil.

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 24, 2008, 02:21:54 PM
Я ГАВИРЮ ПА РУССКИЙ ДЛЯ МНЁ СЕМЯ СВИВО НА УКРАИНА

Learning Russian might not be that bad of an idea.  In truth I think Japan is going to rise like the Phoenix  one day. But Pootie Poot has balanced his budget, eliminated his national debt and pays his bill on time. And Russia  too is  sitting on an ocean of oil.

Actually it translates more like this:

I speak Russian because my family is part from Ukraine(The Russian speaking part ;D)  I understand Ukrainian, but cannot speak it well.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 24, 2008, 11:47:46 PM
Did you see the price of gold today ? 922 all on its lonesome way to 1600 plus  :D

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 25, 2008, 04:20:14 AM
Of course, because I am trying to buy a set of the 1986 or rather MCMLXXXVI AGE's.  I bought the Russian gold medal yesterday at melt, today it is worth more ;D

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 25, 2008, 05:01:11 AM

Modern gold is cute, but nothing like holding gold from when gold was the king of money.  A hundred year old coin that basically becomes worth only the metal value, because even though it would be collectible in it's own right, by means of the skyrocketing price of gold, it is worth more the metal it has.  So 101 years later it commands respect not only for it's wonderful design, but for the value it still represents.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 25, 2008, 11:58:37 PM
That is one thing about French coins
You cannot get a 200 year old Napoleon at melt  ;D

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 12:24:45 AM
Interesting date you choose for that Double Eagle.   Hey!!!!! I know, maybe  Benny is the next JP Morgan?  ::)

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 01:36:31 AM
Interesting date you choose for that Double Eagle.   Hey!!!!! I know, maybe  Benny is the next JP Morgan?  ::)

Actually I just bought it.  Next I want a Saint from the same date.  With this lot I just bought the only Saint was a 1914-D.

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 01:37:45 AM
That is one thing about French coins
You cannot get a 200 year old Napoleon at melt  ;D

I have bought Napoleon III's at melt, and Louis XVI's at just over melt.  These were nice VF-XF coins.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 01:50:42 AM
That is one thing about French coins
You cannot get a 200 year old Napoleon at melt  ;D

I have bought Napoleon III's at melt, and Louis XVI's at just over melt.  These were nice VF-XF coins.

I meant the REAL Napoleon I
I can buy all the Nap III and Angels and Roosters at melt in Antwerp every day because money exchangers in Belgium buy at melt minus 1.5% and sell at melt plus 1.5% daily for a single coin
If you buy 20 or more they are meltprice
Mind what I have learned  to call melt is the spotprice
In Belgium melt means 5% below spotprice to be molten down into gold

Oh and those so called Louis d'or have to be XF or better by convention or it are melters meaning they go 5% below goldprice and are suposedly molten down ???

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 02:04:56 AM
Napoleon Premier Consul An 12
MS62 with slide or AU58 take your pick



Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 06:54:20 AM
Napoleon Premier Consul An 12
MS62 with slide or AU58 take your pick




You will send me one for melt plus 1.5% :o ;D

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 10:57:56 AM
Interesting date you choose for that Double Eagle.   Hey!!!!! I know, maybe  Benny is the next JP Morgan?  ::)

Actually I just bought it.  Next I want a Saint from the same date.  With this lot I just bought the only Saint was a 1914-D.

You know it never once  occurred to me, until I saw your Double Eagle, that this  sub prime debacle  really started in mid or late 2007--- exactly one hundred years after the 1907 panic. There's even a story (or urban legend) that Morgan loaned a bank a truck load a gold coins so they could  put them on display before opening their doors to a bank run. When the public rushed in and saw all the stacks of gold coins they kind a shrugged and went home. JP faked them out just like BB is trying fake everyone out.

I wonder how many managers  loaded up with Structured Voodoo Investments ever saw "The Recruit?" Heheheehehe. Reckon it's too late now to watch it.

"Nothing is as it seems."
Al Pacino--The Recruit


 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 26, 2008, 01:06:06 PM

You know it never once  occurred to me, until I saw your Double Eagle, that this  sub prime debacle  really started in mid or late 2007--- exactly one hundred years after the 1907 panic. There's even a story (or urban legend) that Morgan loaned a bank a truck load a gold coins so they could  put them on display before opening their doors to a bank run. When the public rushed in and saw all the stacks of gold coins they kind a shrugged and went home. JP faked them out just like BB is trying fake everyone out.


Giannini(Bank of Italy, later Bank of America) did it with gold coin borrowed from the mint after the earthquake in SF in 1906.

Bernanke made comments prior to his taking the helm of the Fed regarding stability, and that not all good things last forever.  He knows precisely what is going on, but surely cannot give the impression that negative is on the horizon, for panic begets worse outcomes.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 12:41:01 AM
Napoleon Premier Consul An 12
MS62 with slide or AU58 take your pick




You will send me one for melt plus 1.5% :o ;D

Sorry  ;D
The point was that 100 year old Naps go for melt plus 1.5% even close to 1860 sometimes Which is 147 years  ;D
To get these you just walk into a money exchangers place
Before like 1855 coins were spent not hoarded
I got a Louis Napoleon 1852 at melt after a year of hunting and on ebay

Do'nt ask to mail either
First it is illigal to mail money uninsured and I just paid 40$ to sent a 10$ crucifix by bulk mail to Virginia on my first trade ever
A crucifix for a bottle of Karl Lagerfeld perfume  :P

About 24 by 12 inches and two pounds
I tried to sell it on ebay but postage killed all deals
So I was going to sell it for copper scrap when somebody offered me to deal  :D


Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 12:48:17 AM
I wonder if we're going to see a different Ben when the election is over? He's going to be vilified just as Paul Volcker.  Mr. "Timing is everything" Greenspan  sailed away just in time and left Ben with two rusty nails and a pile of sawdust to work with.  He doesn't have any good choices just as Volcker didn't.  You can see it on his face.  Everyday where I work they deliver the WSJ, FT, Investors Daily and NY Times. Almost everyday one of those papers has a picture of Ben on the front page. He looks like a man who knows he's going to the gallows. 

But at least Volcker choose to save the currency. He's  still  vilified for all the pain it caused. But at least he's vilified  for all the right reasons.  Ben, if he keeps going this course is just going to be vilified.


 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 03:24:52 AM

First it is illigal to mail money uninsured

I'll pay the registered post from Belgique, just send the Naps twa moi!

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 03:34:15 AM
I wonder if we're going to see a different Ben when the election is over? He's going to be vilified just as Paul Volcker.  Mr. "Timing is everything" Greenspan  sailed away just in time and left Ben with two rusty nails and a pile of sawdust to work with.  He doesn't have any good choices just as Volcker didn't.  You can see it on his face.  Everyday where I work they deliver the WSJ, FT, Investors Daily and NY Times. Almost everyday one of those papers has a picture of Ben on the front page. He looks like a man who knows he's going to the gallows. 

But at least Volcker choose to save the currency. He's  still  vilified for all the pain it caused. But at least he's vilified  for all the right reasons.  Ben, if he keeps going this course is just going to be vilified.

For better or worse, the election has been decided by factors more in the financial than the political realm.  Much like Albert Gore was rather quite fortunate not to have been elected(or perhaps selected by the Supreme Court as it may be) in 2000, because the writing on the wall for the economy was present at the tail end of the Clinton administration.  Bush managed to ride on post 9-11 boosts, and steer the nations attentions from more prescient economic matters, to those of alleged malevolence on the part of some one bit dictator in the sands of Araby. 

Much like Argentina did in 1982 with their invasion of the Falklands, it diverted attention from what the people were really concerned with, and brought about a national crises which demanded immediate action. 
However, always, the payback to come latter on shall be exponentially more writhing in burdens to all.

So now thus, 'tis our time to bear our burdens, for having our Treasury depleted so, much so, that the National Debt staggers unduly to nearly $9 Trillion Dollars, the money presses wear down so, because they print not enough to keep up.  Greenspan was wise enough to step aside, before his legacy should have been tarnished by what shall result.  Bernanke is a torn bandage, ready to let.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 05:44:21 AM

First it is illigal to mail money uninsured

I'll pay the registered post from Belgique, just send the Naps twa moi!

Ah my friend
Following is written tung in cheeck
First I am Flemish so I live in België cause we are trying to separate completely from the Belgique ( that is the Frenchspeaking ) and we allready have three federations Flanders and Brussels Capital and Wallonia but still too much Flemish money is going outside of Flanders
Second Registered is 6 euro and uninsured .Insurance will cost another 6 euro and would be no good since since the 12 euro would only protect up to 500 euro inside the EEC and it seems the US refused to ratify a postal agreement or the other way around .
And last , even here it is getting difficult to find Nap I 's in AU or better since the owners died off and most are now in younger hands  :-[

Main reason of my success is that in France there is a tax on gold and I suppose most private ebay sellers forget to pay that tax
So they rather sell on ebay then go to a real coinshop

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 06:49:50 AM
Ah, any excuse to not send the Napoleons, then they are those narsty French etc.  And when I was in Belgium, I know not what her language preference was, but I do believe I saw the loveliest woman I had ever seen anywhere in Europe.  So see there are far more important matters of life than language or national feeling, but rather those of the sacred feminine. :o

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
January 27, 2008, 09:58:34 AM
  So see there are far more important matters of life than language or national feeling, but rather those of the sacred feminine. :o

Aye! Toulon   :P


 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
January 28, 2008, 03:39:10 AM
Ah, any excuse to not send the Napoleons, then they are those narsty French etc.  And when I was in Belgium, I know not what her language preference was, but I do believe I saw the loveliest woman I had ever seen anywhere in Europe.  So see there are far more important matters of life than language or national feeling, but rather those of the sacred feminine. :o

Yes but at my age I prefer the quick gratification of a large goldcoin in hand
On a german coinforum they are laughing with people that have a pocket coin because it translates badly into a fondling coin
Those highh bred beauties are so ephemeral
And the French aptly warn that it is very difficult not to have to share them  ::)

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


henselen

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 06, 2008, 06:52:41 AM
 :-* :-*don't forget to look at palladium, just this side of platinum, and will become more valued as this world need/economy continues to grow.  jay

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 06, 2008, 03:15:56 PM
In the U.S it's hard to even know what or where growth might be since we're lied to around the clock. To arrive at real GDP you have to subtract inflation out of the nominal GDP. But in the U.S they  subtract out from the inflation rate the core, that is the things people actually need: housing, food, and energy. Whatever is left after  they subtract out the core they then call the "core."  Pretty neat huh? Now if the inflation rate is a lie then the GDP has to be a lie, and so it is and has been. IMO, we probably have had a flat or negative *REAL* GDP for the last 20 years.

Another cute trick they practice is to keep talking about the "possibility" of a recession.  This implies that we are not in one now. And of course we won't have one either because Big Ben will keep the liquidity pumps going.

Only one problem with that: You can't appease an enemy. It doesn't work. People don't view Ben and markets as enemies. But they should. The more Ben gives, the more the market  will want. Why settle for 4% or 3%? Why not wait for 1% or 0%? It's only when Ben stops trying to appease the  Market that the Market will stop demanding more.  But if he does that the reverse will kick in and whatever "economy" there really is will be done for. And if he keeps appeasing, he will surly run out of points long before the Market runs out of height that it can spiral in from. He should have just let the toilet flush  and gotten it over with.


 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 07, 2008, 01:00:06 AM
There is more then 400 Trillion dollars out there in advanced contracts based on computer models
Most categories are untradable and therefore cannot be marked to market ( buyers price unknown )
Since they cannot be sold they cannot be priced and yet about only 50 billion seems to be written off by banks

It took the Japanese 20 years of their people saving money to get on an even keel again , but the american savings rate is negative
( they spend more then they earn )

So I can live with a 20% inflation like in the sixties as long as the banks stay open  ???

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 07, 2008, 02:10:58 AM
Thankfully I have some European habits, ala some of my Scottish ancestry, setting back for the rainy day.  'Tis more than most Americans do though, I know people with huge loans for snowmobiles, boats and the un-necessities of life.

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 07, 2008, 10:37:23 AM
I think we're going to see some big things this year for good or ill. Ben is trying to defeat the Market. Let's see if he wins. I think the Market is a barbarian and Ben is the poet they're sending out to check him. 

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 07, 2008, 11:40:30 AM
It is a very good thing to have contingencies in case the proverbial Shtuff hits the fan.   ;D

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 12:26:37 AM
First Album of the Eagles in 28 years and they got it wright

The Eagles Long Road Out Of Eden

Music blasting from an SUV
On a bright and sunny day
Rolling down the interstate
In the good ol' USA
Having lunch at the petroleum club
Smoking fine cigars and swapping lies
"Gimme 'nother slice of that barbecued brisket!"
"Gimme 'nother piece of that pecan pie"

[Long Road Out Of Eden lyrics on http://www.metrolyrics.com]

Freeways flickering, cell phones chiming a tune
We're riding to Utopia; road map says we'll be arriving soon
Captains of the old order clinging to the reins
Assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains
But it's a long road out of Eden


Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 02:50:53 AM
"On a dark desert highway..." ;D

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 03:33:05 AM
I can get NO satisfaction .......

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 05:04:05 AM
I can get NO satisfaction .......

Those are the Rolling Stones, not the bEagles.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 06:54:52 AM
I can get NO satisfaction .......

Those are the Rolling Stones, not the bEagles.

Sjee I am getting old
I thought it were the Beach Boys ( Of course that was Good vibrations I realise now )
Anyways I was thinking of Albatross ;, Bird of good Omen but for the live of me I cannot remember the band
Those were the days of Mungo Jerry too ; and the Beatles and Cliff Richard and The three degrees and univ  :'(

I only have Hotel California the original LP in XF condition and my 2 times 2000 watts American Phase Linear amp on which you can cook eggs
Thanks to the American forces in Germany and my brother
I got a Lynn Sondek  with a Grace arm and a Entré moving coil cartridge all state of the art 1980 like , now collectors items
Speakers are the 105 KEF reference speakers also museum items

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 07:15:40 AM
Record players and LPs are making a bit of a comeback, some people like the sound they produced, recently Emerson came out with 78 player, though not a very good one.  Some stuff that was only burned onto CD's is now getting pressed to vinyl though.  I have only one or two records, one is a 1965 mint edition(still wrapped) "Sound of Music" LP that I bought at an estate sale.  I would love to play it, but would prefer a decent record player.

The one medium of music playing I despise are tapes, they lasted in the USA until the late 1990's, but I noticed in Europe as early as 1993 they were few and far between.

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 10:13:36 AM
It is a very good thing to have contingencies in case the proverbial Shtuff hits the fan.   ;D

Indeed, especially now that some of the fog appears to  be burning away from the Imperial Hallucination--see link.  Wasn't Mick Jagger a student of economics at Oxford before he figured out where the real money was?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080208/us_nm/usa_economy_recession_dc;_ylt=ArqFj8xl1UMUXUW3HhfLa2eyBhIF

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 08, 2008, 10:35:18 AM
From Mick
"What a drag it is getting old
Kids are different today,
I hear every mother say
Mother needs something today to calm her down
And though shes not really ill
Theres a little yellow pill
She goes running for the shelter of a mothers little helper
And it helps her on her way, gets her through her busy day"

And from The Who

"I woke up in a Soho doorway
A policeman knew my name
He said 'You can go sleep at home tonight
If you can get up and walk away'

And from Grace Slick

"And the White Knight (fed) is talking backwards and the red queens off her head"

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 09, 2008, 12:25:37 AM
Record players and LPs are making a bit of a comeback, some people like the sound they produced, recently Emerson came out with 78 player, though not a very good one.  Some stuff that was only burned onto CD's is now getting pressed to vinyl though.  I have only one or two records, one is a 1965 mint edition(still wrapped) "Sound of Music" LP that I bought at an estate sale.  I would love to play it, but would prefer a decent record player.

The one medium of music playing I despise are tapes, they lasted in the USA until the late 1990's, but I noticed in Europe as early as 1993 they were few and far between.


Dual in Germany is making a real belt driven heavy platter recordplayer again
I have more then 500 records and what you need is a heavy platter 4 to 6 pounds
You need a good arm with antiskating and the arm needs calibration for height and other things
Then you need a good cell like Orthopon or Shure with an elliptical cut diamond
And on todays amplifiers you need a preamplifier that will understand record players ( RIAA ? )

I got an original USHER tapeplayer another collectors piece that will do dual stereo at 19 speed whearas the mini cassettes were 4.7 speed
I was playing high quality full chrome minitapes till 2005 when my car was totalled
The new cars only have CD changers  ???
I think a chrome tape made on a good stereo tapecorder sounds nearly as good as a vinyl record

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 12, 2008, 03:26:48 PM
Gold must be  natures way of telling the IMF  "you suck."

http://in.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idINIndia-31847320080209

I just love this part: "The IMF is rich, if it wants to be," he wrote in a recent note to clients, issued before the G7's approval of the gold sales. "This is arguably a good time to consider selling some of these gold holdings and investing the proceeds in financial securities with positive yields."

Oh yeah!!!!!  Lets re-arrange the deck chairs (in a positive way) on the Titanic.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 13, 2008, 12:31:13 AM
The Mogambo guru is great this week
Look at Trillion dollar Bush

http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_08/daughty021208.html

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 13, 2008, 12:20:27 PM
I saw  Mogambo  man in one of the Daily Reckoning emails. I liked Bonner's omen of:  Rat or Giants. This is the Year of the  Rat and the rat is suppose to symbolize prosperity. But the last time the Giants won a super bowl there was a recession. So which omen will win-- recession or prosperity?

I don't really understand why a rat, a scavenger and decomposer, would be a sign of prosperity. Maybe the two omens will combine and this will be the year of the:  One -eyed one horn fly'n purple people eater (OEOHF'PPE)  :o


 


Offline ElleKitty

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 13, 2008, 12:28:27 PM
I should think a rat symbolizes prosperity because the little rodents always seem to gather where there is plenty. 

Do add this coin to my collection?
 
   Cat?      Australian?              US?                Really Old?
  |    |        |      |                   |    |                   |     |
Yes  No     Yes   No              Yes  No                Yes   No
  |       |     |       |                 |    |                   |     |
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Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 14, 2008, 12:32:57 AM
I should think a rat symbolizes prosperity because the little rodents always seem to gather where there is plenty. 

Also rats are the very first to leave a sinking ship so they must be smart  ;)

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 14, 2008, 11:05:23 AM
This is getting interesting. What is  is  is  the definition of a rat?

In way Year of the Rat does make sense in light of the tax rebate. I haven't looked at the final version of it but at one point they wanted to give "tax rebates" to people who don't even pay taxes and better yet to illegals. Yes! There was a provision in the bill to give illegals a tax rebate but it was caught by someone.  I think his exact words were: "You have got to be kidding."

But then again, rats do know when it's time to leave a sinking ship, at least the smart ones do.  But now  what would happen on a sinking ship if someone like Big Ben kept running out and throwing scraps on the deck to stimulate the ship's  resurrection?

I hear Ben Bernanke (Wasn't there a movie about a big rat named Ben?) is  going up on deck again with more scraps. Pretty soon the rats will be swimming in the water and lunging at their welfare checks.  :o





 

 


Offline ElleKitty

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 14, 2008, 11:29:35 AM
Personally, while I can't say getting a check for several hundred dollars in the mail is going to be a disappointing experience, I do think that the US government is absolutely totally insane for this additional stupidity.

We're already in debt by how many trillion? So let's just tack on another billion or so because we want to drop free money in the streets for the people who live in them. 

I find it utterly irresponsible of our so-called leaders.  I can't see how this is going to help our economy in the long run at all.  I'm utterly afraid that in the long run, I'm going to end up spending my World coin collection at face value because the US dollar will be worth 1/100th of a Mexican Peso and merchants won't accept it anymore. 

I am not an economic genius, by the way.  I just happen to think that our government needs a serious overhaul.

Do add this coin to my collection?
 
   Cat?      Australian?              US?                Really Old?
  |    |        |      |                   |    |                   |     |
Yes  No     Yes   No              Yes  No                Yes   No
  |       |     |       |                 |    |                   |     |
(YES!) (?) (Yes!) (?)           (Nope) (?)             (YES!) (?)
 


Offline Humpybong

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 14, 2008, 11:31:10 AM


Well, you are lucky.....you can do something about it at the next election

Barry
Brisbane, Australia
Forum Administrator

"Experience enables you to recognise a mistake when you make it a again"
 


Offline ElleKitty

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 14, 2008, 11:34:49 AM
I wish.

I will go and vote, just like I always do.

However, the Powers that be will pay their lobbyists and such to go and vote the way they want things to turn out, and my little vote for Revolution will end up not being worth much.

But damned if I'll stop voting just because of it.

I would love to see a Grassroots movement of the Citizens against Big Business, Lobbyists and Politicians.  If anyone knows of one, point me toward them!

Do add this coin to my collection?
 
   Cat?      Australian?              US?                Really Old?
  |    |        |      |                   |    |                   |     |
Yes  No     Yes   No              Yes  No                Yes   No
  |       |     |       |                 |    |                   |     |
(YES!) (?) (Yes!) (?)           (Nope) (?)             (YES!) (?)
 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 14, 2008, 09:35:32 PM
Quote
I'm utterly afraid that in the long run, I'm going to end up spending my World coin collection at face value because the US dollar will be worth 1/100th of a Mexican Peso and merchants won't accept it anymore

Scary thing is that some people with a lot of statistical information claim the long run could be anytime from 2011 on  >:(

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 15, 2008, 12:51:14 AM
I'm *proud* to say I don't vote and haven't for some time. I'm not playing this game of voting for "A" because he/she sucks less than "B." This election is even worse. McCain looks like he'll be the Republicrat and if Clinton gets the nomination for the Democratlins than it will be more like vote for "A" because he/she is less clinically insane than "B."

I'm sorry buy most special interest groups fund "both" parties.  How much more of a joke can it get?

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 15, 2008, 02:04:52 AM
I am not into politics so my data me be a bit off
I think we are now about 8 months after the 4 year election and have a crisis government ad interim
composed of 4 or more parties half flemish half frenchspeaking
The Vice got taken to hospital the day before budget vote or some such
After 24 hours in hospital they think he is bleeding internally maybe stomach maybe intestines
I cannot even bother to watch the TV news but I am by law obliged to go and vote
So every voting day a duty to fullfil or pay fine or go to jail  :(

Italy used to be more spectacular then Belgium but they are so much quiting down it is frightening

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 15, 2008, 10:55:44 AM

So every voting day a duty to fullfil or pay fine or go to jail  :(

Isn't it funny how organizations-- especially government and religion--start out serving and then over time everything just flip flops until the served become the servers? Even in coin collecting, at least in the U.S, grading used to be a handy tool for collecting.  Now coin collecting is the tool of grading.

This flip flop is world wide and the corruption of organizations is rampant. I think it means something--the system has exhausted itself. It's burned out. Something that James Dale Davidson and William Rees-Mogg have written about, rather extensively, in their last book-that politics is exhausting itself.

Just as the Mother Church (the model these two authors used) in Europe, and the Supreme Authority at the time, exhausted itself.
If you want to really see the face of pure and total corruption read about Pope Alexander VI and his "animal house" parties. Ever more corrupt, grasping, and showing nothing but contempt for the people he was supposedly serving. Sound familiar? And yet history has shown that he and the Church's authority were in decline. And that particular history and the Thirty year war showed exactly what happens when the authority of the status quo is threatened. They don't go down quietly. You can even see a trivial example of that right now. Clinton, the status quo slam dunk isn't such a slam dunk anymore with Obama. And she's freaking out. Hehehehehehheheheheh

This is why I have asked and still ask: does inflation or deflation really matter anymore for the price of metals? Fear, uncertainly and upheaval just might be all that it takes  to keep the price of metals climbing,  at least over the long haul.   

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 15, 2008, 09:42:58 PM
Quote
If you want to really see the face of pure and total corruption read about Pope Alexander VI and his "animal house"

I never heard about this one but then again my teachers brothers of religeous order were very good at hiding most embaressing things

Like it took me 40 years before I found out about the crusade against the Albigensis were they killed every last men and woman and child at Mount Ségur and the crusaders doing the killing got a full pardon of all their sins for participating
Even on the internet they post very dry summaries
http://www.carm.org/heresy/albigensis.htm

Quote
This is why I have asked and still ask: does inflation or deflation really matter anymore for the price of metals? Fear, uncertainly and upheaval just might be all that it takes  to keep the price of metals climbing,  at least over the long haul.   
If there is a pure deflation metals may lose out . But can you see the price of food coming down again with all those chinese wanting better food and having all those paper dollars ?

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 16, 2008, 01:01:32 AM
Indeedy,  plus where does all the water come from to grow the extra crops to feed china and to fuel  American SUV's with ethanol? There's already a water problem in the world. Wheat prices have tripled, I think, since 2005 and if the Chinese really do like sweet and sour pork  Chow Mein  than hogs have to be grain fed. Or fed with some kind of actual food. I don't think they can eat grass like cows can.

But then again nothing about China is a "slam dunk" to me. They've become very wealthy very fast. Like people that win the lotto, they usually screw it all up not long after they're rich. IMO, anything at all can happen with China. Too much, too fast and too many. And if they get too snotty with us we'll just send Jack Bauer over there to straighten them out. 

"Chloe..eeee, I need you to up load me some Cliff notes on how to fly a B1 bomber. I need that in the next 30 seconds Chloe, or a 100,000 hogs are going become sour pork Chow Mein."

Chloe snarl: "Okay Jack I see what I can do."  Another Chloe snarl.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 16, 2008, 04:43:36 AM
You probably are not aware the EEC has a lay aside policy
So far  farmers got paid for NOT using farmable land since there is allready a minimum price on tomatoes etc and when they do not get the minimum price they put lime on them and pay the farmer. I live close to the biggest auction site and the things I saw destroyed are disgusting
So a few years back they decided any charity or homeless help organisation with affiliated card could come and pick up the superfluous before it was destroyed

I think I heard on TV that this year Europe will not pay for 10% of the land to grow weeds = layaside  ???
Do they want to put lime on what is grown  ???
Or do they perhaps think those farmers are going to grow something saleable on the free market for once  ???



Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 16, 2008, 11:22:37 AM
I think the  U.S started paying farmers here not grow food back in the Great Depression. I really don't know how that's working out now with all these trade agreements we have with everyone. But I'm sure whatever the arrangement is, it's regulated by 50,000 government  blundercrats.

But inflation in the U.S isn't an issue.  You see  Daddy  Blundercrat  doesn't put food prices in the inflation index or anything else that might upset the zombies. So we don't have inflation here just lots of Prozac. In fact, I hear the price of salt, baking soda and sawdust is actually dropping.  You folks in Europe  really need to get with the program. Repeat after us : "What  inflation?"   ;D

By chance, did you happen to study Latin when you were studying  religion?

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 16, 2008, 11:56:15 PM
Quote
By chance, did you happen to study Latin when you were studying  religion?

In the sixties there were only two very high end schools in town
One run by priests and latin ; the other by brothers missionaries kicked out of the former Belgian Congo
I refused to learn a dead language so fortunately the brothers got the option Math and modern languages on top of religion
and compulsory mass on wednesday before school or if you were not up to it they offered Economics and languages  ;D
I speak Flemish , French, English and German and enough Spanish to get by instead of Latin  ;D

Of course I choose math and got another 5 years of punishment at the Catholic University of Lovanium with philosophy and ethics etc
all that to become a Chemical Engineer  ::)

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 17, 2008, 12:53:09 AM
With all that math and education I think we need you over here to give Ben some remedial lessons. You can even bring a Nun with you and she can wamp on him with her  yard stick when he starts acting stupid. ;D

The reason I asked about the Latin is because on the back of the U.S Dollar it says" "Novus Ordo Seclorum."  I was wondering if that really translates to New World Order. The on-line translators say it does but each word has  about ten other meanings.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 17, 2008, 03:35:05 AM
Quote
The reason I asked about the Latin is because on the back of the U.S Dollar it says" "Novus Ordo Seclorum."  I was wondering if that really translates to New World Order

From my Latin learned in church and from my French I knew this to be a wrong translation
A webcrawler gave me the right one in a minute

Novus Ordo Seclorum signifies "the beginning of the new American Æra," which commences from 1776.


http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/seclorum.html

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


Goose

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 17, 2008, 09:30:13 AM
I only had 4 yrs of latin in H S and after a few yrs (a few yrs? HA!) I can't remember zilch. But in my trusty 1977 gigantic dictionary, under 'Foreign words & Phrases', it states: { (L) 'A new order for the ages' (motto for the reverse side of the great seal of the U S A). }

Also,  I recollect speeches from the last 3 president all say, "The new world order". Hmmm.

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 17, 2008, 11:05:45 AM
Quote
The reason I asked about the Latin is because on the back of the U.S Dollar it says" "Novus Ordo Seclorum."  I was wondering if that really translates to New World Order

From my Latin learned in church and from my French I knew this to be a wrong translation
A webcrawler gave me the right one in a minute

Novus Ordo Seclorum signifies "the beginning of the new American Æra," which commences from 1776.

http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/seclorum.html

Thanks.  It certainly was a new era back in 1776--the era where  politicians  had the choice of being the function of citizens or the object of a bayonet. And it's a new era now--the era of citizens being the function  of CEO's whose policies are promlagated by their political minions, a.k.a "our leaders."   

And then in November it'll  be "pass the Prozac and vote the bums out." Like it really matters. It'll be a seamless transition, one bum out, one bum in and  a smiley CEOligarchy.

If this country were ever to hit another Great Depression there's a danger the zombies may come back to life. Maybe that's what they're afraid of?

Just one more reason to own gold and silver.

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 18, 2008, 01:00:49 AM
I am really not very good at macro economics but Mr Sinclair seems to think that silver will shoot up like a rocket and fall like a stone since it is not real money but a commodity whilst gold will shoot up like a rocket and stay there to please the rich which will use it as real money in some sort of way as collateral

http://www.jsmineset.com/home.asp

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 19, 2008, 01:10:00 AM
I hope he's right, I'd love to buy more silver at lower prices. I stopped buying when it hit around $11.

It should become obvious sooner or later that this inflation, via Ben's liquidity, is nothing more than Ben shifting  the losses  of wallstreet screw-ups  unto the backs of consumers. He's not a fed chief anymore, he's a welfare czar.

He's giving wallstreet a stay of execution from the real nature of Capitalism: reward the smart and punish the stupid.  If he wants to play that game that's fine but he's not fooling Capitalism.  Sooner or later the executioner is going to win and the retards will be in the hereafter where they can embrace with their discounted future earnings that took  up residence there long ago.   :o

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 19, 2008, 05:20:14 AM
If he is right you should buy silver now at 53 ounces to an ounce of gold and switch your silver to gold when the exchange is better then 15 silver ounces to a gold ounce that is like 200 percent gain with the pleasure of holding the silver in the meantime and the gold later
Since here in europe the spreads plus 7 percent sales taxes on silver take a huge bite out of anything I am not going to play that game

My game which I thought out in the seventies trying to cover as many ways as possible without loosing a chance of being on the winning side

First all kinds of goldcoins bought as close to melt as possible and most with a collector premium potential should collectors get more affluent
( low probability ) but if gold doubles from here who cares ( high probability )
Then gold shares spread over Rand and Candollars and majors and marginals . After every rally selling the highest and buying lowest on the theme that everything averages to the mean . Sofar this has worked since  my dogs of yesterdays are my stars of todays

Since some of my better predictions have been used by others under their own name I guess that virtually nobody is posting anything original anymore on any of the forums I used to post on .

In the next months a last opportunity for buying gold or gold shares may arise

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
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longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 19, 2008, 03:15:16 PM
Thankyou. I guess that could work well as long as metals are in a long term up trend, which I believe they are, but I've never really been that wild about gold at any price, low or high.

When it comes  coin collecting and silver--(mostly Art bars) I have to actually like what I'm buying whether or not I think it's a good investment. That's probably not the right way to do it but if I was doing it right I'd rich by now.  ;D

Of course I could  still get rich doing it backwards. Seems to work for wallstreet. So silver and it's symbolical mirror might be perfect! I can shave with my left hand  and the mirror will say it's right.




 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 19, 2008, 09:42:19 PM
Yesterday in the news on TV there was some rep from supermarkets saying food was going up at 8.5% a year now
immidiately followed by Colruyt rep I think saying not all foods are going up like salad is coming down and some other fresh vegatables too
Now what is the caloric value of salad ??? Close to nil I would think
How long can you keep it ? Like three days if you are lucky and it is probably Hydroculture pushed as fast as possible and
since salad has virtually no own taste it is not a factor in producing it


We probably will not get much for our troubles buying silver or gold but we may be able to keep what we have and pay
for the food we like . So essentially keeping up with inflation

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 20, 2008, 02:19:04 PM
I was in line last night at the super market and watched some woman, buying 10 gallons of milk and paying for it with a WIC check. After  "We the People" paid for her "chill-drins" milk  she then paid separately for all her yuppie crap: salad, tofu, fish, deli meat, deli subs,  wine etc.

Who's going to support all the welfare bums in America when everyone in America becomes a welfare bum?

Why doesn't bush give us all a million dollar rebate? We can really stimulate the economy then. 




 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 20, 2008, 11:56:23 PM
I was in line last night at the super market and watched some woman, buying 10 gallons of milk and paying for it with a WIC check. After  "We the People" paid for her "chill-drins" milk  she then paid separately for all her yuppie crap: salad, tofu, fish, deli meat, deli subs,  wine etc.

Who's going to support all the welfare bums in America when everyone in America becomes a welfare bum?

Why doesn't bush give us all a million dollar rebate? We can really stimulate the economy then. 

I once had an american boss the best I ever had who ended his second retirement as vice president of Tupperware
he received double salary whilst in Belgium for another company that fired me in 1996
one salary at home and one here in Belgium
He got free use of a small castle with stables and horses with one provision that he got the lawns mowed and the horses ridden
Now his wife and two daughters liked to ride horses
His wife spend money like a drunken sailor going to France to buy mink coats

Belgium is a welfare state and I paid 65% direct state taxes on any salary increase and another 12% city taxes on everything and up to 32% taxes on luxury items as value added tax 25% basic luxury tax and another 7% on superluxury
I travelled two hours at high speed a day ( in the old days 100 miles an hour) and I could not afford a 2500 cc car with 32% tax not even with 8 years of university and engineering and MBA diplomas nor speeking 4 languages

One day he kind of complained to me about during his term back in the US a woman was buying prime sirloin steak with welfare checks whilst he was buying ordinary beef
Ok he was the saving kind but his three woman were spending it as fast as they could .

For the moment the Belgian reasoning is if they can get immigrants as fast as possible and paying taxes our pensions will be safe  ??? ??? ???

The last year with the american multinational I paid 37000 dollars in direct taxes and my employer paid 84000 dollars in government contributions for my welfare and my pension etc and then I paid solidarity contributions on my "free" sickness insurance etc.

I guess what I mean is that a country that does not have money for dental care for its children but for two useless wars is far from a welfare state with welfare bums
and a million during the Weimar Republic did not buy you a loaf of bread .
My father was in german care during WWII and he ate worms and beatles and grass and cats to survive, my grandfather had gold double eagles sewn in the hem of my mothers dress and he had a private car and driver and spend the war in the South of France

Bottom line welfare state or not you have to try and take care of yourself


Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 21, 2008, 01:07:07 AM

Bottom line welfare state or not you have to try and take care of yourself

Thanks August! That is the best advice I've heard for a long time, and one that I subscribe too.

Yes and I am a boy in trouble
My wife said she does not want to hear about the troubles of the world anymore and that it is going to drive me crazy
She still thinks the state is going to take care of her and I warned her every week the only thing the banks want is to get from her
whatever they can and NOT to trust their advice
She asks me who should I trust and I told her nobody which is an understatement since I do not trust myself  ;D

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 22, 2008, 12:55:04 AM

I guess I shouldn't complain too much about the woman and her WIC check. At least she didn't demand 300 million dollars severance pay to leave the store.  :o






 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 22, 2008, 03:29:24 AM
Over here they do not give you food checks for all to see
They are civilized enough to transfer money into your bankaccount monthly
My neighbour is a cook and he is on unemployment money now for more then 10 years
He is very honest too because he does not work illigally without paying taxes
He just goes fishing every day fish will bite


Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 22, 2008, 05:09:36 AM
My neighbour is a cook and he is on unemployment money now for more then 10 years
He just goes fishing every day fish will bite

Hmm, something sounds a little fishy about a 10 year fishing trip. :o

 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 22, 2008, 05:29:00 AM
My neighbour is a cook and he is on unemployment money now for more then 10 years
He just goes fishing every day fish will bite

Hmm, something sounds a little fishy about a 10 year fishing trip. :o

Once you got like 20 years of paying taxes and are older then 55 you are after I think six months no
longer in the unemployment stats . Also you are allowed to refuse jobs which do not match your qualifications
Like this guy cooked for Mick Jagger of the Stones and can refuse to flip burgers in a fastfood resto.
Flip side is that they give you enough money to survive but not enough to pay for extras
Poor guy had to give up his sauna visits but still buys cigs and beer with money from his wife .
Since he will have no extralegal pensions coming I really do not understand why he is not working now and then
It is perfectly allowed to work let's say 5 days a months if you pay taxes and use a temp interim agency

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 23, 2008, 12:03:56 PM
My neighbour is a cook and he is on unemployment money now for more then 10 years
He just goes fishing every day fish will bite

Since he will have no extralegal pensions coming I really do not understand why he is not working now and then
It is perfectly allowed to work let's say 5 days a months if you pay taxes and use a temp interim agency

Don't you have a Department  of Parked in the Park like we do? On any given day you can go by a florida park and see three or four county  lumps sitting in their trucks reading  newspapers. I've never seen any of them fishing but I'm sure it wouldn't be that much of a strain to put a newspaper and a fishing rod in the truck as long as they're  wearing their back braces.  :D

The welfare state is an amazing spectacle of the phony.  Right now the democratlins are worried about helping the poor illegal immigrants by making the legal.  They forget to mention the part about helping themselves to the taxes that 13 million of them would pay.

The Republicrats  have all sorts of nationalistic reasons why illegals shouldn't be made legal.  Including one that actually makes sense: It rewards law breakers. They seem to forget the part about  Corporate Pig bags benefiting  from cheap labor. Not to mention  the leverage they can deploy against them.  Is a meat packing plant using illegals really going to even think about a union? They also forget that it's not likely that a Mexican family can live in the U.S on Poppi's i $1.50 an hour wage.  Welfare from the states makes up the difference which is the same thing as giving the welfare to some pig face CEO making $100 million a year.

Both sides seem the ignore the fact that  the middle class is being driven to extinction from all this. That part at least in not too surprising since destroying the middle class and making Americans dependent on crumbs from strangers  is exactly what the plan is.

The middle class in this country had better get with it. Especially the boomers. They were born into this world as spoiled brats. But they are no longer  part of the  equation except to the extent that they can be looted.  They had better realize it soon or they will be leaving this world as arrogant paupers.


 


Offline Paint Your Wagon

Re: Gold or Silver?
February 24, 2008, 12:49:40 AM
Quote
The welfare state is an amazing spectacle of the phony

Yes and No
There are those with a dozen children only 2 their own who get paid for the other 10 they took on their marriage booklet I hear say
so officially they have 12 and the state has the money to pay them but not to control them
There is this child surviving for like 3 years in a flemish hospital because in Algeria it would have died 3 years ago I seem to remember TV reported
There is all those immigrants who refuse to take off their headdresses but whose husband or friend or brother  are driving second hand Mercedes Benz or lately second hand Beemers and who buy houses without bathroom and central heating no flemish want and renovate them with all their family which is probably on social assistance paid because they do not find work whilst doubling the value of their house
This is all hearsay of course

But then there is those Flemish infirms whose city budget has been reduced to give more money for youth houses for the immigrants

In all fairness and not to be accused of immigrant bias I have to say that I know quiet some Flemish who are gaming the system too

The real loosers are those like my wife that suffer from Fibromialgy which disease is NOT recognised and others which are really too ill but have a problem that is not recognised by normal medicine.
We have people living and dying in the streets of Brussels because they are too marginal to understand and use the system
They sleep in the streets and die in the streets
They are paid infirmity or social security meaning they are unable to work or unable to find work ....

Where I am going I ain't certain
Where I am going I don't know
All I know is that I'am on my way
 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 25, 2008, 10:48:49 AM
Redistributing income and allowing people to "game the system" is how they:

A) Turn the masses against each other.
B) Create dependency within the masses.
C) To control them.

Government is centralization and centralization  has been  dying since the mid 70's. Technology is destroying the returns to scale. And the status quo,  *you can believe* will do all that they  can to hold it together.  It's the immovable object of centralization  meets the irresistible force of decentralization. It's going to be quite a mess. And IMO, may go on for a really long time. There are still a lot of games to be played with this.

The USSR and China failed with centralization first because they were the two grossest examples of it. And they could not bring in any more totalitarianism to hold it together. How many times can you shoot someone for "breaking the rules?"

A better way, from the view of todays status quo is to get the masses to beg for crumbs and to steal any and all privacy from them in the process.
Even the feudal lord wanna bees on wallstreet are begging for crumbs from Big Ben--pretty sad.   

Some day the zombies in this country are going to run out of pills, their vision is going to clear for a few seconds and they will see what's really happened.  Why, they might even become  lucid enough to  view their  personal privacy as *private property*  stolen from them.  Inflation or deflation, I think that could  be a  really good moment to be sitting on metals.

 


scottishmoney

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 26, 2008, 01:01:12 AM

The USSR and China failed with centralization first because they were the two grossest examples of it. And they could not bring in any more totalitarianism to hold it together. How many times can you shoot someone for "breaking the rules?"

Some day the zombies in this country are going to run out of pills, their vision is going to clear for a few seconds and they will see what's really happened.  Why, they might even become  lucid enough to  view their  personal privacy as *private property*  stolen from them.  Inflation or deflation, I think that could  be a  really good moment to be sitting on metals.

That will not stop forces in the USA from trying to repeat the mistakes of the socialist Russians and Chinese.  Believe you me, when the $#!+ hits the fan, the first thing that the government with the guns and munitions will come after is your food and your gold, because they represent real power, and the guns can take it by creating the fear.  I am sure that there were those in early 1920's Germany that thought they couldn't possibly be lead by totalitarian regimes that would destroy the country a mere 20 years later. 

The Russians and Chinese learned from their mistakes, if you believe me not, just travel to their respective countries and see blatant commercialization at it's peak.  Especially in China in the next few years, the financial plutocrats are going to agitate for greater representation in the government and question why they are not the political force, but instead are being led by backward peasants in the form of the Communist party and the army and not the financial and economic intelligentsia.  Why else would Berozovsky and several other Russian oligarchs fall out of favour with the Russian government led by an ex KGB and Communist Party man?  Because they represent a real and serious threat to the people in political power.

 


longnine009

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Re: Gold or Silver?
February 26, 2008, 10:54:18 AM