World Tranquility for another Week

[scottishmoney]

Darling I love you 
Please take over Flanders 


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7657422.stm

Sadly enough, there are more than a few 90+ year old British soldiers graves there in Flanders.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Darling I love you 
Please take over Flanders 


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7657422.stm

Sadly enough, there are more than a few 90+ year old British soldiers graves there in Flanders.

Most British and American graves are in France and I visited them all !

Tomorrow I am going to clean out my local supermarkets of Corned beaf and soup etc
My wife thinks I am crazy but that is her problem
I have seen empty supermarkets 3 or 4 times during the cold war
She is too young to remember

Hopefully Sinclair is wrong but i think that half a quadrillion dollars is as good as a nuke ..


http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2008/10/07/four-at-four-600-points-here-500-points-there/

[TwoShadows]

This is going to be tough on a lot of folks as most have never had to do without in this country. Our younger generation is a "gotta have it now" generation and most of them aren't real keen on working. Technology has made the last decade or so or our young ones very very lazy and its only going to get worse. They are addicted to their cell phones and games and could care less about the world passing by. It could be time for many to finally pay the piper! I guess being poor is not so bad after all? Won't miss as much and as long as all us poor folks stick together I assume we can pool our pennies and keep this castle open!

[KurtS]

Well, I agree that a lot of people are going have to find some purpose outside of materialism; $$$ is modus vivendi for the avg. person here--because we're all "wealthy, successful, and sophisticated"--or at least try to keep that illusion going.  Take the credit cookie jar away--and there's going to be a lot of crybabies who have the most to lose pointing fingers of blame.  I was warned about the implosion in '98, and after my internet startup cratered I got myself completely out of debt--and have stayed that way. It will be a hard, but much needed lesson. I just hope nobody here faces real hardship...my future is uncertain too.

 

[scottishmoney]

It is going to be hard on people.  It maybe a good thing in the long run though if people have to learn how to get off their voluminously sized posteriors and actually work again.

[Goose]

Twoshadows, what's a cell phone? Is that the phone you use when someone is in prison? I'm far from being a youngster and I don't have or need one. When I hear people saying, "Well, my cell phone bill is 'only' $90 a month and I have 'free' texting." What the.....? Heck, for $90 a month, I just as soon buy foreign coins......which I do! (My land line costs $40.......with taxes, 9 of 'em, comes to $54.09.....unlimited use and unlimited long distance --anytime.)

[Paint Your Wagon]

You know if I have food and heat what I will miss most is if the internet goed down cause then this forum will be down too

My cellphone bill is 5 euro with 20 free minutes I never use more then 4 or 5 max
I only switch it on in the supermarket to ask my wife if a red widget is out that I should buy a blue one
Or telling her I will be home several hours late cause I am stuck in traffic

[scottishmoney]

Gees someone is getting ripped up the bum if they are paying $90 a month for a cellphone, we have two which are something like $60 for the pair with 300 minutes each.  I liked mine for awhile, until recently I started to feel like I was on a tether with it, and started leaving it at home. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

IN an emergency move UK and Europe and US dropped intrest rates by 0.5%
Too little too late of course
The US will decide about the fate of the world in 90 minutes time
If the Dow goes down 1000 points out of the starting blocks it is tilt and game over

I managed to grab another 7 goldcoins but 5 are still in the mail due to a 2 days strike in belgium
we the french and the english are the kings of strike
Of course they want more money to pay for their three vacations a year ( most got like 38 vacation days now )
20 of those days are not only paid but paid at 1.72 the other at normal pay

[scottishmoney]

Paint Your Wagon, you are a lucky guy if you can buy gold and get it delivered these days.  I bought some this weekend on eBay, one of the 1908 100 Kcs restrikes from Hungary, but I got it at much less than melt and I worry about seller actually sending it.

[Paint Your Wagon]

You should never buy gold from a hungry Chinaman Ebayer, expecially when the world is going crazy with fear of recession.

You should never buy from a hong kong or chinaman
I buy from three well known pros one in Paris one in Vienna and one somewhere in Germany
These days I buy above melt and when it arrives it is below melt 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Splitting shares over several banks they want like 6% transfer money and 3 weeks time
So I buy at one bank and sell at another bank or vice versa that only costs 5% and is immidiate
By pure chance I made 20% in two days on Minefinders 
Just moving my retirement around
Whish I could move it to the Canary Islands 

[longnine009]

I just read in Bonner's email that as of Sept U.S. property is down 6 trillion.  The figure is probably just another pack of lies but even if it's true it seems to make Paulson's 700 billion  EL Cid rides again package looks a bit short to me. Apparently even wallstreet can do that math. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Not El Cid
We need the magnificent seven ride again with the young Yull Brynner ( since saving the world is going to be sci fi for the foreseeable future )

The Belgian guarantee fund has 900 million euro 
But the good news is that our prime minister ad interim said that will not be needed cause the state now gives a state guarantee I think between banks for 12 months or so .

In the meantime like a 1000 people had their money blocked since the Kauphting icelandic bank had a small outlet in brussels giving 4+2 % intrest
whereas the max market is 4.25 % . The bank is legally under Luxemburg law and they locked all accounts untill further notice .

The chief of the Flemish newspaper Tijd who now is on TV every newscast said very quietly that getting out of this situation is going to take a long time

[Paint Your Wagon]

Switzerland saved USB their biggest bank today ( I am sure not for the first time the last month )

And disgustingly our prime minister ad temp leader of a coalition of 6 or 8 I forgot
is travelling to Iceland to talk about saving the Kauphting bank cause about 2000 belgians lost all their money on the high intrest rate bearing intruments of this bank . Between the house and the senate they cannot have 2000 reps but I guess a lot of party friends where amongst the losers
It was reported that saving the bank Dexia ( and others ?) who catered to townships and the like costs half a billion euro in intrest alone to belgium every year from now on .

In the national budget they put Flanders for an extra 800 million euro which the flemish parlement is not willing to give at this moment
I hope they give it because the Flemish party is only about 40% in some cities and that giving away of Flemish money might just get them 50.01% in some cities  and kill of the socialists and christians and liberals and freewheelers all who do not care about Flanders IMO

[longnine009]

Well Hankie announced that his assistant skin head would be buying stock in U.S Banks for 250 billion and the stock market surged 900 points. Now that gain or most of it is  already gone as of yesterday. All that's changed is that someone is going to get a ton of money in "consulting" fees.  Gee, I wonder who that will be?

Linear time (a construct for modern societies)  has not, and never will, usurped cyclical time. People just need  a reference point of when to show up for work, when to pick the kids up from school etc. Linear time is just a useful tool, it's not the tool box.

But since linear time moves foreword we've come to believe that everyone's life should move forward and be pleasant--it's our right! We've been deceived by our own deception.

Sorry Hankie, but cyclical time is still here, and probably pretty pissed off too at being ignored for so long. World economies, especially in the U.S have had their summer and even stole the summers from the next two generations.  Winter is coming and I don't care how many steel straps the treasury  puts on EL Cid, he's not  "living imparied"---He's dead!

[Paint Your Wagon]

It is looking bad
The German and the French agree what needs to be done for the moment 
I cannot remember a time they ever agreed apart from the unconditional surrenders they signed twice 

[longnine009]

France and Germany agree because they are happy. Their skin head movements have finally found their long lost  Daddies over here.  

[Paint Your Wagon]

The nations of Hungary and Ukrain are yelling for help
But Switzerland is trying to save UBS once more cause the clients still seem to be leaving and our Leterme is to Iceland to save a stratigical bank in a strategical island and I am sure everybody else is pumping paper on the fire to sustain the unsustainable
So another crisis weekend coming up
Our Leterme survived a vote of con findence whilst he was on the airplane 

[longnine009]

Over here politicians are starting to get their wish for a class war. Sheila Bair director of FDIC blasted the bail out plan, (or should we call that the "living impaired recovery act"?) because it gave most of the  welfare checks to wallstreet  bums instead main street Prozac zombies.  I wonder if Sheila saw the NY Times report that the  goldman hustlers had a 20 billion dollar stake in AIG before Hankie rescued them in the name of saving humanity.

"Although it was not widely known, Goldman, a Wall Street stalwart that had seemed immune to its rivals’ woes, was A.I.G.’s largest trading partner, according to six people close to the insurer who requested anonymity because of confidentiality agreements. A collapse of the insurer threatened to leave a hole of as much as $20 billion in Goldman’s side, several of these people said." NY Times

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/gretchen_morgenson/index.html?query=AMERICAN%20INTERNATIONAL%20GROUP&field=org&match=exact&&

That and more skeletons will be stumbling out of the closet after the election--after the skin heads are gone.  Especially if Obama wins. And people are going to be livid that wallstreet got something for nothing instead of them.

Mark my words, The doo-doo  is going to hit the fan in this country. Great Depression?  How about the Great Rumble.  Whiny feral cats fighting skin head  pigs  for  "We the Slaves' " money.   

Which is why I still don't care if we have hyper inflation or massive deflation in this country. Social upheavel, IMO, will be more than enough for PMs. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

On the paper traders stool they are having the old argument again
Is gold money ?

in the meantime we do not have a recession I read because Mc Donalds burgers and Cola are still selling as usual

[longnine009]

I remember a Simpson's cartoon where Homer is splayed out on the couch and he hands Bart a $10 bill.

"Bart go down to the store and get me some more beer." [or something like that]
"Okay Dad. Hey...this isn't real money, it says Montana Militia men."

Evil-doer  stare from Homer---"It'll be real soon enough."  

[Paint Your Wagon]

I don't know about the rest of the world
but iceland said that kauphting belgium and luxemburt are the least of their worries and since the belgian branch is incorporated in luxemburg there is not much belgium can do
On the other hand there is another minibank run on Ethias bank and they have gotten till monday to find like 1.3 billlion euro
So I guess our government will be debating all weekend again how to save what

They just annouced they gave up on the 2009 budget . I will not even be balanced by extravagant growth nor one time income or savings
I think they now presume a 0.4% shortfall ( based on unrealistic high growth prognoses )

In other news I read that Zurich has NO gold left and that ALL big bankvaults to stash it are now completely rented out . So there is a shortage of vaults  I guess they do not want to subcontract to Lichtenstein 

[longnine009]

In other news I read that Zurich has NO gold left and that ALL big bankvaults to stash it are now completely rented out . So there is a shortage of vaults  I guess they do not want to subcontract to Lichtenstein 

And I'll bet the people filling  up vaults with gold are A) The same people who talk gold down. B) The same hustlers who say inflation is not going to be that big of a deal. C) Kim Jong with the "protection" money  we give him. D) Corporate CEO's who are worried that governments will find a way to hack their accounts and steal the money that they stole from  shareholders. Which reminds me, do any of those Swiss bankers look like Ken Lay? 

[Paint Your Wagon]

This week ING lost 27% of its value and Ethias needs 1.2 billion by tuesday and Kaupfhign bank belgiena branch has frozen all deposits of all belgians notwithstanding they are paying out in iceland
This is going to be a last man standing story
Oh I went from Fortis who does no longer exist as a bank but was absorbed by BNP Paribas to ING and now have the experience of being with a bank in troubel for a second time . I just transferred all cash out . wonders of computers when they still run .

[longnine009]

Today is the anniversary of the stock market crash in 1987. They'll probably pop some Prozac and say since we recovered so fast from that one, than our troubles here are practically over. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

The troubles are only starting
Question is if this Kondratiev K winter starting is going to be a winter or an ice age
I do not know what to believe of the latest Hat Trick Lettre but it sounds possible
I have personnally been in meetings were the main discussion was who was going to fire half of the workforce ; the old owner selling or the new owner buying . A workforce or depositors are just a nuisance one has to learn and live with 

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6826.html

[longnine009]

They've been holding off the winter for so long now, I suspect it will be an ice age, warmed up here and there with  hot guns.    The Nazi didn't go out quietly or easily and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THESE PEOPLE  ARE.

[longnine009]

Today is the anniversary of the stock market crash in 1987. They'll probably pop some Prozac and say since we recovered so fast from that one, than our troubles here are practically over. 

I mis-recollected, it was Oct. 19, 1987.  BTW, they're tossing around the idea of another economic stimulus. See, if you shovel  enough oats into the skin head horse he'll pass a few flakes for the sparrows. Can't recollect who said that.  

[Paint Your Wagon]

Today France is putting 14 billion into banks like everybody else
I think Norway bought the Norvegian sub of Icelandic Kauphting bank
The IMF is bailing out Iceland

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=anDhCPcDTK4E&refer=home

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7b83b114-9e9f-11dd-98bd-000077b07658.html

[longnine009]

I just ordered a book on Amazon: The Forgotten Man: A new history of the Great Depression by Amity Shlaes. She was on the radio the other night and sounded pretty knowledgeable. Might as well have a guide book. 

We should probably stop making French jokes over here. The way we're going with our economy, politics, "and spreading the wealth is a good thing"  we'll just be making fun our selves in few years, if not a few months. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

I suppose you mean 1929 ( because there were two end of 1800's)
In 1929 everybody was on margin and the people lost their money and money they did not have
Now the banks are on margin like 40 to 1 and they lost money they have and money they do not have but they are being mostly saved
There are several scenarios but the most common one is first Inflation big way and then Deflation .

Governments can create money but they cannot push on a string and make the people spend . Nearly everbody is spent out .
Of course they can make the banks spend and lend and buy worthless stuff but that is the creating part of the equation

I think I will reread the book I bought in 2002  by Prechter
Conquer the Crash
How to survive and prosper in a Deflationary Depression ( except that i think there will be inflation somewhere sometime too )

[longnine009]

Yes it's about the 1929 depression. Another problem is that so much of the garbage, hedge funds, etc was never regulated. So no one really knows the extend of the crap in waiting. And apparently don't wish to notice the swarms of flies around it--ooooh it's the mother of all Happy Meals.  During the Civil War at Gettysburg, Lee's Calvary officer was out skylarking somewhere and poor old General Lee had no information about his enemy other than what he  could see from the window. The battle went very poorly for him. And he was the best of the best. But somehow it will be different for us--we're the boomer generation, we're special.

Flawduh hasn't had this kind of  unemployment since the 80's. And yet the county lumps want a raise. The county told them yesterday to get a clue, they haven't  any money for raises. The union's answer was: let us look at the books and we'll find the money for you. Maybe the plan is to make Europe and the U.S so much like each other we might as well become one big happy family Viva La one world government   

Have you read Bonner's latest book: Mobs, Messiahs, and Markets? Great book; I read it twice.

[longnine009]

I just listened to a radio clip of Barney Franks (the alpha monkey from fannie and freddie). It sounded like Barney was trying to say we need an important  dose of Keynesian. Unfortunately  he may have had  something jammed in his seagull faced gullet at the time and it sounded more like change-e-ism.    Oh well, as long as it's some kind of ism.

[Paint Your Wagon]

There is about 1.15 quadrillion $ bytes floating in computers and contracts
The US needs about 2 Billion foreign coming in per day that is like 800 Billion a year on a 2 Trillion deficit
The deficit for next year is like 3 Trillion
But the world is save for another week
I am going to apply for a 90 days bridge loan of 10 billion at minus 1% intrest 

http://federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/monetary/monetary20081021a1.pdf

[longnine009]

The assistant skin head of the Treasury doled out 250 billion to the United Sachs of America last week. Now Ben is talking about 540 billion for money market mutual funds. Is this a dream within a dream: 700 minus 790= negative 90 or is the 540 billion coming from another wallpaper factory?

sing it Hankie:

"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."
Edgar Allan Poe

[Paint Your Wagon]

The assistant skin head of the Treasury doled out 250 billion to the United Sachs of America last week. Now Ben is talking about 540 billion for money market mutual funds. Is this a dream within a dream: 700 minus 790= negative 90 or is the 540 billion coming from another wallpaper factory?

sing it Hankie:

"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."
Edgar Allan Poe

It is reported on the capitalstool forum that the press was not intrested WHERE the money came from only where it was going
We all know it comes out of the taxpayers pocket or out of I owe U no longers

[longnine009]

Well if you can hold off on your 10 billion bridge loan I might be able to loan it to you in a few months. "Spreading the wealth is a good thing."
Only I don't know what "wealth"  Obama is  talking about unless he's going to order Ben to monteize everyone's credit card receipts.  Which would really be about the same as what we call money now, accept the government is holding the Visa card that the receipts come from.

But that would be a wonderful way to "spread the wealth" and punish those who stayed out of debt while at the same time rewarding those who piled  it up.

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." -- Henry Ford

Sing along with the Goldman boys:

"All that we see or seem is but a dream
within a dream."

Edgar Allan Poe
Conductor Hank Paulson
Fly-Girl  Ben Bernanke

[longnine009]

Well, at leat he didn't cure anyone of blindness  or something so unimportant as that!

If he did that he'd never get elected.

Be assured, they know exactly what they are doing. There will be a price for this so-called something for nothing.

"Capital must protect itself in every way...Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd." -- Taken from the Civil Servants' Year Book, "The Organizer" January 1934. 

[longnine009]

Dow did another header for 500 points.

http://www.knightsofthecointable.com/kotctgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2554&g2_navId=x2ba124a2

[Paint Your Wagon]

Only 6 zeros 

[longnine009]

Popular number right now.  Looks like someone recently became  viewer #666 to this thread. 

BTW, They had a priest, Father Nicholas Gruner, on the radio a few weeks ago. He thinks that the beast that is mortally wounded in the head and then rises up from the living impaired could be  communism. It was mortally wounded and died for awhile and now it does seem to be coming back. Maybe Sachs can adopt a hammer and sickle as a corporate logo.

"But there's a warnin' sign
on the road ahead
There's a lot of people sayin'
we'd be better off dead
Don't feel like Satan,
but I am to them
So I try to forget it,
any way I can."

Rock'n in the free world
Neil Young

[Paint Your Wagon]

I could not resist a little bit of sarcasm
The 5 German mints turned out like 400 000 pieces of WEIMAR in 2006 which is I think like 5 years too early for the next weimar
So I got myself one
Looks like a fairy tale but ................. it will be one by the brothers GRIMM

[KurtS]

Looks like a fairy tale but ................. it will be one by the brothers GRIMM

     Yes, I also fear it will be an "old-fashioned" fairy-tale--one retold in future years as a lesson. But memories are very short. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Green rot will terminate copper if untreated

Greenspam did not see it coming

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aee9e3a2-a11f-11dd-82fd-000077b07658.html

[TwoShadows]

Perhaps he was blinded by the light? Or did rich friends, greed and corruption weigh heavily on their minds?
Keep those money printing presses rolling as our kids will need something to do when they get older!

[longnine009]

Green rot will terminate copper if untreated

Greenspam did not see it coming

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aee9e3a2-a11f-11dd-82fd-000077b07658.html

It's just a coincidence that greenpuke  retired just in the nick of time.  But I guess we should be relieved that he's not demanding a higher severance package now that's it's all too clear how much "talent" he had and how  much "added value" resulted from his efforts.

                                      Got rope?   

Sing along with the Goldman boys:

"All that we see or seem is but a dream
within a dream."

Second verse same as the first.

Lyrics by Edgar Allan Poe
Conductor Hank Paulson
Fly-Girl  Ben Bernanke

[Paint Your Wagon]

I do not believe what he is saying but it is believable


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1954933468700958565&hl=e

[Paint Your Wagon]

It is reported Greenspam is now Obama main adviser
god help this world
I mean this universe

[longnine009]

Greenspan only gave congress what they wanted--loose money. It's as much their fault as it is his. Especially Franks and Dodd of fail-ie Mae and fail-ie Freddy. He should have done what a fed chief is suppose to do--protect the currency. Do people know that Greenspan used to be a disciple of Ayn Rand? Obviously, your not going go very far in government following a libertarian "gold bug" so he left.

But apparently he didn't forget. In Atlas shrugged, the Capitalists, that is real Capitalists, who actually took their own risks and losses , were considered to be a blight on society because they insisted on also keeping their profits.  The exact opposite of today, where fake capitalists rape the country and are considered to be "talented."

The strategy for the Capitalists in Atlas Shrugged was simple: Give them what they want. We're a blight on them so we'll go on strike. We won't do anything that will be a blight on society. We'll kick back and  watch them  descend into anarchy.

Greenpuke did the same thing: He gave us all what we wanted and good and hard too.  

[longnine009]

I found this article today: The price of a barrel of light, sweet crude trading for delivery in December fell $5.43, or 7.5%, to $66.75, the lowest since June 2007. Oil prices are now down 54% from the record close of $145.29 on July 3.

So, I will ask you this...is your gasoline price down 50% from what it was on July of 2007? Who said 'what goes up, must come down!'.

I think the price  could come down another dime a gallon if "We the People" build them a dozen refineries at about 20 billion apiece.  Alternatively, maybe a mob will come along and drag a dozen oil roaches out into the street and strangle them.

[longnine009]

It is reported Greenspam is now Obama main adviser
god help this world
I mean this universe

What can he advise him on?  Hank + Ben = Alan on heroin. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

I found this article today: The price of a barrel of light, sweet crude trading for delivery in December fell $5.43, or 7.5%, to $66.75, the lowest since June 2007. Oil prices are now down 54% from the record close of $145.29 on July 3.

So, I will ask you this...is your gasoline price down 50% from what it was on July of 2007? Who said 'what goes up, must come down!'.

It was on Belgian Television that when gasoline and gazoil came down in price they would they the difference in extra taxes estimating like 390 milion euro extra income
Not that that will be enough but on paper they only needed an extra half billion 
In the financial paper for products world what goes up rarely comes down  It all defies gravity by edict

[longnine009]

Sorry, Mis-posted.

[longnine009]

Let us join hands and sing  in one world harmony for Obama:

Our house is a very, very subsidized house
We're bums out  in the yard
Life used to be so hard
Now everything is easy
'Cause of you

Lyrics confiscated  from
Crosby, Stills, and Nash  and
redistributed  to someone more
worthy

[S.George]

 

Sir OldDan:

Whatever goes up, should come down....this term is generaly used for stock markets.

You can read about todays   stock market crash, in India.

Regarding gasoline price, it will also come down, proportionately, if not today...in due course.

George

[KurtS]

It is reported Greenspam is now Obama main adviser

Not to add to politics here, but since Volcker has endorsed/advised Barack Obama, I doubt that particular rumor is true.
Those two have somewhat diverging approaches to money policy, not to mention party appointment/affiliation.
With recent scrutiny on AG's "mistakes", I now doubt either campaign would tap him for his support.

[Paint Your Wagon]

It is reported Greenspam is now Obama main adviser

Not to add to politics here, but since Volcker has endorsed/advised Barack Obama, I doubt that particular rumor is true.
Those two have somewhat diverging approaches to money policy, not to mention party appointment/affiliation.
With recent scrutiny on AG's "mistakes", I now doubt either campaign would tap him for his support.

I cannot find back the original I think Finantial Times article but I saw volker and obama team on several news flashes

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/09/21/Obama_team_includes_Buffett_Voelker/UPI-55491222004645/

[longnine009]

I remember something from last week on Volcker. I think it was just an interview he was giving to someone. Too bad, he's what the country really needs.

Lincoln was known to put people together with extreme and opposing views when he had to decide on something. He'd have them right there in his office debating an issue until it bordered on  a fist fight. Then he threw them all out and made a "deciderer." 

[KurtS]

Lincoln was known to put people together with extreme and opposing views when he had to decide on something

I've also read that about Lincoln, and I think it takes strong character to pick people who may disagree w/you but have ultimately beneficial input. It takes a large person to see the value of that, vs. surrounding oneself with identical viewpoints--at the risk of reinforcing missteps.

I should find myself a good biography on Lincoln; he's one of those remarkable Americans.

[longnine009]

Apparently he had quite a sense humor at times. One time during the Civil War he refused to sign a death warrant for a soldier convicted of cowardice under fire. He sent it back with a note saying we can't execute this man, it would scare him to death. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Next week may be ultraviolent

I am just flipping my coin up or down since the first flip it ended on its edge 

[Paint Your Wagon]

I do not understand why Ukraine needed saving for 16.5 billion
I thought they were the grainproducer of all Russia

In related news the flemish tv said our last big bank KBC will now be getting billions too
So Fortis got given away without toxic waste if I am right and ING and Dexia got their first save and
now KBC got its first save . Prices on the open market indicate that the ING and Dexia save is wearing thin

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aRwi6q7Tnvdw&refer=home

[longnine009]

It's the new "capitalism" using an old idea. 

http://www.seanstoner.com/blog/2008/02/22/old-school-get-rich-quick-seminar-non-sequitur-comic/

[Paint Your Wagon]

Iceland that nationalised Kaupfting is the first nation to default on Samaurai bonds ( money borrowed from Japan of course )

The main could be 28 billion

[KurtS]

More bad news for Iceland...do you suppose they'll have trouble importing necessities this winter on the usual credit?
It has me a little worried for my friends there. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

More bad news for Iceland...do you suppose they'll have trouble importing necessities this winter on the usual credit?
It has me a little worried for my friends there. 

Official iceland inflation now 15.9 % Official that is
After an IMF bailout iceland is now asking help from other nordic countries
Before the crisis iceland was one of the richest OESO countries
Source flemish econ newspaper
http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/buitenland/Nieuw_inflatierecord_in_IJsland.8096089-439.art

Unofficially I hear their supermarkets get no credit anymore . You might want to ask your friends if they need help and if canned food shipments are allowed
and I have no idea how energy independant they are for heating .

[Paint Your Wagon]

Finally somebody got woken up and is speaking Trillions of losses
Well if they go to one quadrillion I will start to believe them , ok even at a quarter quadrillion I am willing to look at the figures

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Bank-England-warns-potential-more/story.aspx?guid=%7B53DD55C7%2DB476%2D4F22%2D9103%2DDCDB5F543908%7D

[KurtS]

Unofficially I hear their supermarkets get no credit anymore

I've heard the same story; fortunately my friends are presently OK; I'm sure they'll get by on their fish and other sources.
Btw, I recall my first reaction to Iceland's "success" --I was highly skeptical; everything about it said bubble, in terms of runaway development, market psychology, and consumerism. It's quite similar to our "boom" here in California, although I think Iceland's situation is a little more precarious.

[KurtS]

OldDan-
My suspicions too--the retail credit market has some ominous undertones...but all I hear now is "containment" Hah. 
Consider these two charts from a recent Merrill Lynch presentation (pdf)


I just don't get that 25-year trend; probably because I'm very frugal and I now have zero debts. 

Credit delinquency trends:


I don't predict a "spendy*" Christmas for US retailers.

*that's Minnesotan for "bling" 

[TwoShadows]

In my lifetime the single greatest cause of credit card debt is XMAS. Seems to me everyone would be much better off spending time together for the holidays instead of burying themselves in debt passing out more junk we all could live without? The last twenty or so years have been very disheartening to me and I wish I could hibernate throughout the month of December. The whole mess is out of control, driven by greed and the "I want" mentality and so was the spending that goes along with it. It has turned into nothing more than an economic recovery month for all businesses who could trim the fat and learn to live with much less just like the rest of us! Leave Santa for the kids and BACK off there as well! By the time they reach 7 years old there is NOTHING left to get them that they have not already gotten!

[longnine009]

TwoShadows, I believe we are at the fork in the road. We'll can go back to being  a *real* Capitalist country where people really work, really save, and really invest in real investments.  And business produces products people really want and can use rather than financial goobily-gook that does nothing but make a bunch of math geeks in Greenwich village rich.

Or we can become a bunch of socialists until the U.S decends into something resembling the Spanish Civil War--a three sided war with the the third side being anarchists.

I'm not too confidant that this country will opt to go back to real  Capitalisim. That involves work and discipline and thinking on your own. It's too easy for politicians to seduce everyone with "lets soak the rich" rubbish. No country that I'm aware of ever soaked the rich without killing them first. And then they killed anyone else who dared to dissent against policy whether they were rich or not. "Soaking the Rich" is the on-side kick that never works.

We're a flabby country and I don't think we have the will to do what we know is right. And I don't see anything in our so called presidential "choices."  One wants to give the candy store away to whiny feral cats on main street and the other wants to give it away to pig faces on wall street.  Socialism or corporate fascism.  Great "Choices."   

[Yass]

In my lifetime the single greatest cause of credit card debt is XMAS. Seems to me everyone would be much better off spending time together for the holidays instead of burying themselves in debt passing out more junk we all could live without?

A few of years ago, I suggested a proposal for my kids at xmas time.  I would give them cash along with few small items under the xmas tree (you have to have something to open on xmas day  ).  Each of them would get the same amount.  The proviso was that they could only spend it (or not) at the sales that occured after xmas.  When they had decided what they wanted, they were to 'shop around' for a better price. They were to haggle. When they had arrived at a suitable price, they were to consider it for a day or two (if possible).  They were also asked consider pooling the money to buy something that they could all use.

We had a great time shopping together after xmas.  They agreed to pool a portion of the money to buy an xbox and games that each liked.  The rest was either saved or spent on bargains at the after xmas sales.  It worked well for 3 years.  Unfortunately they have all since left home and I'm back to buying them their individaul presents.  Nonetheless, they have developed into terrific little bargain hunters.  Just like their dad, they never pay the original asking price. And they still buy their own 'presents' after and not before xmas.

[KurtS]

The last twenty or so years have been very disheartening to me and I wish I could hibernate throughout the month of December.

Yes the "shopping holiday" is not my idea of a Christmas; it's a travesty. Every year that I run the gauntlet of dept. store shopping, I feel as if my soul is being ripped from me. 

However, I love Christmas...just for taking time with my family. The year my dad passed away, I decided to take my family to Kona, Hawaii--one of my favorite non-commercial destinations, where I rent a home in the quiet town of Captain Cook (a lot of history there)
In the absence of usual shopping hysteria, we had a wonderful holiday and an enduring memory for our missed father. 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Since 2000 I have been out of a job more often then not only getting temporary work in one to 3 days periods most often
I have kept a ledger ( balance book ) and I managed over those 7 years untill retirement not to spend one euro more then I had
received  .

All gifts were reduced to tokens signal that the receiver was not forgotten .

All clothes were worn untill disintegration if necessary
Heating was turned down
Food of dogs was downgraded to horsemeat (cheapest in belgium)

My wife unashamedly asked her sister who was freewheeling for secondhand anything like clothes ; glasses ; etc
It was painfull

[Muckeye]

Only way to go!
Stick to your guns.
regards.

[Paint Your Wagon]

More and more of the truths is leaking out
Austria lend money to Hungary and Ukraine etc for more then the GDP and Spain lend more to Latine America then the USA did
Austria and Spain have to be saved to save the euro So Hungary was saved today
Somebody made a tally and reported on TV that the saving we did comes to 100 euro tax per belgian born and living sofar

It seems that several hedgefunds or banks or whatever insured themselves a dozen times over against the same risk or no risk
So unwinding of these trades will not be done without the goverment putting a gun against their heads

Latest article is on TARP

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2VdrjC1TWxE&refer=home

[longnine009]

Hitler once said of Russia that Germany only had to kick the door down and the whole rotted edifice would come tumbling down. Well, he found out how wrong he was about the Russians but the analogy seems to apply to the world "economy" and the worms in government--It's the rotted oak tree from Atlas Shrugged. Interestingly enough written by a Russian. 

"He felt safe in the oak tree's presence; it was a thing that
nothing could change or threaten;  it was his greatest symbol of
strength.
  One night, lightning struck the oak tree. Eddie saw it the next
morning. It lay broken in half, and he looked into its trunk as
into the mouth of a black tunnel.  The trunk was only an empty shell;
its heart had rotted away long ago; there was nothing inside--just a
thin gray dust that was being dispersed by the whim of the faintest
 wind.  The living power had gone, and the shape it left had not
been able to stand without it."

Atlas Shrugged--Ayn Rand

[Paint Your Wagon]

Ah more news about the saving of Hungary but now Greece has problems with their dry bulk carriers and other ships
They seem not to be able to get credit ; well they might have to row like the roman ships did by using crooked bankers as gallyslaves


http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/10/29/hungary-imf-aid-markets-economy-cx_vr_1029markets7.html?feed=rss_markets

[KurtS]

...row like the roman ships did by using crooked bankers as gallyslaves

[longnine009]

Maybe the Goldman boys can suck-start the ships for them?

[Paint Your Wagon]

Somebody trying to make money by selling subcriptions
The US defaulting is on many a forum as a topic

http://tinyurl.com/6juujd

[Paint Your Wagon]

Instead of gold confiscation they are confiscating houses and goldshares this time around according to this analyst joe sixpack is going to pay the price again but not in gold but in inflation

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2008/1029.html

[Paint Your Wagon]

I just read in Budget Week the consumer advice for Belgium that the US quietly changed its tax laws so that a bank acquiring another can complete book off the losses of all dubious paper against its own past earnings and that way taxes to be paid are reduced an estimeted 140 billion dollars . Way to go banksters .
On the other hand the saviours of the English banks require 12% to be paid before anybody else gets a pound . The shareholders are not diluted but will see a lot less money anyway.

[longnine009]

I don't where you find this stuff but thanks for that link. So Paulson was office assistant to John Erlichman? Johnny trained him well.  IMHO, Paulson is a traitor to the United States and should be charged as such. They should confiscate every dime he has in the same Nazi-like way that he is confiscating money from the U.S taxpayer and the next 10 generations of kids. They should use spookies in Langley to hack any secret bank accounts he has and STEAL BACK every freaking digit in his skin head bank  accounts. No matter where in the world his bank accounts might be. Start looking in Idaho; I hear that's where most of the American Nazis are hanging out at these days. Oh yeah, wasn't Hitler a paper hanger?

HE'S NO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[longnine009]

I just read in Budget Week the consumer advice for Belgium that the US quietly changed its tax laws .

They probably did it at midnight. They do all their "good deeds" for America now at midnight or on the weekends.

Golly, awh, shucks, and shazam too , these guys are working so hard for me now, working past midnight and coming in to work on weekends.  I am not worthy of such government.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Question for AIG
Where did the 123 billion dollars go ?
No answer and the accountant is in SECLUSION ( what do they mean like unconsious with Torazine in an asylum of people that want to tell the truth ? )

Oh I find all these things on ADSL around the net . Like in the Scully films ; The truths is out there somewhere
I am now 12 hours on line per day to find out how to protect myself best

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/30aig.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[longnine009]

Question for AIG
Where did the 123 billion dollars go ?
No answer and the accountant is in SECLUSION ( what do they mean like unconsious with Torazine in an asylum of people that want to tell the truth ? )

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/30aig.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Maybe they should check their pockets. Lost accountant at AIG? Have they checked Argentina? Maybe Hankie sent das-boot to take him there.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Now you got your history wrong 

The last batch of Nazis was sent to Latinam courtesy of the Roman Catholic Pope who did not want to get them hurt 
Hanky nor Pauly qualify for the Roman church CEO ( at the moment )

[Paint Your Wagon]

Whilst the dollar is going up and gold falling off the cliff I have been photoshopping my avatar Lee Marvin from Paint Your Wagon in that lovely gold rush
Whilst it seems impossible to get my avatar bigger at least I got it brighter ( autocorrect )

[latman]

And here was me all this time thinking that was you 

[longnine009]

Now you got your history wrong 

The last batch of Nazis was sent to Latinam courtesy of the Roman Catholic Pope who did not want to get them hurt 
Hanky nor Pauly qualify for the Roman church CEO ( at the moment )

Just the sight of a Sachs skin-head  in the Vatican would be a disaster.  The Pope doesn't have enough arms to clutch all of his gold ornaments while sending out emails on his Blue Tooth to make sure all the silverware is locked up.

[Paint Your Wagon]

It has been reported that our latest father has been an innoncent Hitlerjugend ( that is like the club scouts of Hitler)

If he were clever he would clutch all the forbidden artwork that has been collected for centuries
It cut out of the frame it can be rolled up and a few billion carried under the arms 

[longnine009]

I really like this one. Even a poorly built over price piece of junk  U.S auto has more value than a piece of toilet paper with a mathematical riddle on it. But to bail out the auto industry would be helping blue collar folks rather than Goldman scumbags. After all, washington and wallstreet didn't spend the last 30 years destroying the Great Lakes for nothing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49T9VI20081031

[Paint Your Wagon]

They should never have spun off GMAC cause I read somewhere those are going to be taken into the fold of regulated banks and are going to see the lord gosh I meant they are going to be saved financially
Damn Hazard moral or otherwise ; if you are lucky the prez will bail you out before Paulson is gone

[longnine009]

But his Wizard of Oz flying monkeys will be firmly entrenched by the time he's gone. I think I can guess where he'll go to  find all the "talent" necessary to "manage" the booty fund.

[Paint Your Wagon]

gold and silver coins difficult to find
all 8 major on line firms in germany are sold out
those that have silver want like 19$ per ounce those that have gold want like 1000$
gee wish I had sometin to sell but I ain't
American report attached

http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Gold-coins-in-short-supply-command-50-premium-12471-3-1.html

[longnine009]

gee wish I had sometin to sell but I ain't

Just create something out of nothing.  What's wrong with you?    You must think like a CEO and bring your hidden corporate "talent" to bare in order to "create value."  For example, what's wrong with slicing, dicing and bagging some hallucinogenic  mushrooms  and then collateralizing them? Since they are already toxic to begin with they are pre-sold to skin head #2 in the U.S Treasury. Ideally you might get some crack head from wallstreet to eat the toxic mushrooms for you, then trade him a state quarter for a vile of his urine. Now you have "created" a derivative of the underlying asset. It should be of even more value to the U.S treasury because of it's goldman color.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Problem is here in Europe people are held accountable at the most difficult of times

Like the management of Fortis that is persued by a bunch of Dutch based lawyers and another bunch of Belgian based lawyers and being investigated by the Belgian state for misrepresentations of the facts prior to buying ABN Amro ( It is postulated they were aware of their precarious toxic waste position and still went ahead and bought ABN ) Another group of shareholders seems to doubt the right of our prime minister to have given away the bank part to the French . See we learned something everybody is sueing the people that have money somewhere
A golden time for lawyers is awakening . Probabaly the best since Sara title III

PS This is not a joke but I know of an unregulated "doctor" who is selling his dried grass from his mowed lawn at 20 euro per small bag as medicinal herbs against anything you are dumb enough to complain about

[Paint Your Wagon]

Zimbabwe

what a wonderfull world
you make foreign mines deliver gold to you which you do not pay and buy tractors and tv's and limousines for friends


http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-11-03-zimbabwe-gold-mines-face-collapse