An Email about the Future of our Hobby-

[ElleKitty]

Periodically I order coins from Joel's Coins, online.  As a customer, I received this email from him a few days ago, and thought that perhaps it is something that our community needs to read as a whole.  I figured I'd put it up here first- see what you guys thought, and from there pass it on to the rest of the numismatic community that I have contact with.  Please feel free to comment.

Thanks~!

Please forgive this intrusion.  Whether you collect coins over 250 years old or not, this is an issue that should concern not only every  coin collector, but any world citizen who believes in the right to own  property, and the rule of law.  The  question being considered by a secretive, unelected panel in  Washington DC is whether coins, which have passed freely from hand to  hand for centuries according to the intent of their issuers, have  morphed into something that radical archaeologists and nationalistic  politicians call "cultural property," which you are not fit to own.   And the practical question this biased and unaccountable committee  will decide in two weeks is whether U.S. Customs will be mandated to  seize virtually all older coins they think are of Italian origin, with  no practical recourse.   Your fax  can help stop this threat to our hobby.



The U.S. State Department has announced a date of May 6-7 for  Cultural Property Advisory Committee hearings on the request for  renewal of the Memorandum of Understanding with Italy.  In practical  terms, the U.S. government is about to decide whether antiquities and  other forms of cultural property that Italy claims as its heritage  ought to be restricted from entry into the U.S. unless accompanied by  Italian export permits.  There is already such an agreement in place,  but ancient coins have been exempted twice before in these renewal  requests that cover a 5-year window.  We have very good reason to  believe that Italy and certain members of the archaeological community will  this time seek to add coins to the list of restricted items.  There is  a period open for public comment on the issue only until April 22 and the best way to  comment is by fax.



Why oppose these import restrictions?  Because Roman coins are at the  very core of the cultural experience that we all treasure.  They have  circulated all over the known world in antiquity and since through  trade and collector markets.  It is impossible to distinguish a Roman  coin found in Britain, for example, from exactly the same type, mint,  etc. found in Italy.  Requiring an export permit from Italy on a coin  found and legally exported from Britain would not only be impractical,  it would not have any legal foundation.  Still, any court challenge by  an individual is unlikely since the legal costs usually far exceed the  value of seized objects.  Import restrictions are simply not a viable  solution to protecting archaeological sites.  They are an idealist  panacea that cause far more harm to society than any possible good.   Excluding the U.S. collector and trade from the legitimate world  market for Roman coins, or unilaterally forcing draconian  documentation requirements on Americans, would be grossly prejudicial  and would certainly be against the interests of American citizens and  their traditional freedoms.



If restrictions are imposed, Customs will treat any coin on the  designated list as presumptively stolen from Italy.  The importer can  only rebut that presumption with an Italian export license or through  certifications of the exporter and importer detailing provenance back  to the date when the restrictions were imposed (which is often  unavailable-- and even more impossible to procure as time goes on).  This rule would only discriminate against American  collectors.  Collectors in the EU-- including in Italy itself-- do not  have to make such a showing when they purchase ancient coins.



While archaeologists are rightly concerned about looting of  archaeological sites, the guilty until proven innocent remedy  suggested represents overkill and will only act to punish those who  want to abide by the law.



The US State Department has announced an extremely short two week time 

frame for commenting on the renewal of the current Memorandum Of Understanding with Italy.  Comments must be submitted by April 22.



If you are interested in commenting about the upcoming MOU and the 

possible inclusion of coins from the Greek and Roman cultures of 

Italy, you can take advantage of the Ancient Coin Collectors Guild Fax Wizard.  See 

<http://www.accg.us/issues/news/fax-wizard-is-open-for-comment-to-us-state-de 

partment> 

or  <http://www.vcoins.com/fax/>





For further information, please see on my website http://www.joelscoins.com/majorthreat.html



Thank you for your help.



Joel Anderson

www.joelscoins.com

PO Box 365

Grover Beach, CA 93483-0365

[TwoShadows]

I have received an email from a foreign dealer concerning the same proposition. He/they are blaming the whole affair on Italy and are requesting the U.S. collectors respond. I might mention the whole affair is based on a ban to the U.S. only at this time. Why just us?

[ElleKitty]

Probably because we're the largest consumer base?  One of the few nations the Romans never conquered and left their coins behind?  I really don't know.   I just know that I would like the opportunity to continue to purchase coins of antiquity.  Someday I'm going to get that Athenian tetradrachm. ><  Just as soon as I've finished the Aussie predecs.  ><

[OldDan]

A simple case of government infringement on the freedoms and rights of the individual. Right now we are easy targets, as the current administration will do nothing to stop this type of action, and may be aiding and assisting in the enactment of such laws. If you need proof of this, just look at the stuff that is being generated right here in this country and then enacted and enforced in Washington.

Enough said, and I'm not even a collector of ancient coinage. Can you immagine what I would be like if it were more dear and/'or closer to my heart.......

[Templar]

WELL IT SEEMS THAT ONE COUNTRY AFTER ANOTHER ARE RESTRICTING THE TRADE AND OWNERSHIP OF OBJECTS THAT AT ONE TIME BELONGED TO THEM..........AND NOW COINS ARE BEING ADDED TO THE LIST.......I UNDERSTAND RETURNING BODIES........PAINTINGS STOLEN........STATUES........AND OTHER ANTIQUITIES ....BUT YOU HAVE TO DRAW THE LINE SOME WHERE........WHAT IF MY ITALIAN GRANDFATHER PASSED A SET OF COINS DOWN TO ME....DO I HAVE TO RETURN THEM ....COINS WERE AND STILL ARE UNITS OF BARTER OR TRADE AND  CURRENCY CAN BE STONES......SHELLS........METALS.......PAPER...ETC.-----THIS JUST SEEMS TO BE A SHOT AT AMERICANS ............SORT OF A PAYBACK FOR SOME LONG FORGOTTEN GRIPE........IF YOU WANT MY COINS.........COME AND GET THEM......
 YOUR SERVANT AND FRIEND...........THE TEMPLAR AND DEFENDER OF FREEDOMS

[TwoShadows]

I agree. It is nothing more than a stab at the U.S. and our government should respond in kind. Send all of our gold and silver bullion back to our shores and don't worry about any imports or exports of any kind crossing borders.  Italy can live off of the money the Vatican has buried in its vaults. Hey maybe we might want to have a look at the truths hidden away down there?

[Pocketcoins]

We are being run over by the entire world so why shouldn't Italy take a shoot at us? I'm thinking about trying to get a law to make any one who has a Confederate coin or bill to return in to the good folks of the South. They can send them all to me and I will decide who should really get them. 

[TwoShadows]

I am not sure but, should you get those confederate coins rolling in, I MAY BE FROM the SOUTH and would like to volunteer my services as CEO of the Pocketcoin Foundation. Together WE could make some very wise decisions!

[Triggersmob]

You can still buy Italian ancient coins, just get them sent to me.
I will take good care of them.

[OldDan]

I just know that I would like the opportunity to continue to purchase coins of antiquity.

I hope you get your wish Tracy, but if you are really wanting something that is Antique, try finding something which has 'Made in America' stamped on it.

[Templar]

I WILL BE GLAD TO HOLD ON TO ANY CONFEDERATE BILLS HAVING BEEN BORN IN MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA..........THE FIRST CAPITAL OF THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA...................JUST SEND IT TO ME AND I WILL GUARD IT WITH YOUR LIFE...

    YOUR SERVANT AND FRIEND........THE TEMPLAR

[TKO]

I would be wary of responding to anyone about your feelings on these antique coins. It seems to me that all you would be doing is allowing them to build a list of people to have their doors kicked in to confiscate such items. Regardless of your feelings they will do as they wish just like they do everything else.

Baa Baa says the sheep we are.

Once again I have vented...

TKO

[Nighthawk]

Let them come and kick my door in...... they will have to pry my coins from my cold, dead, fingers. !!  

[Pocketcoins]

Let em come kick my door in, Dog foods braking me up any ways. 

[Nighthawk]

PC, if this stupid economy does not get better soon, we won't be eating dog food anymore. We'll have to eat THE DOG!!!   

[Templar]

I WILL BE GLAD TO OPEN MY DOORS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE PROPER WRITS AND CAUSE----OTHER WISE THEYWILL MEET MAGGIE AND MY MECHANICAL MACHINES ON BAD TERMS

  WHAT PRICE FREEDOM??

      FREEDOM COMES WITH A PRICE!

               YOUR SERVANT AND FRIEND OF DEMOCRACY--------THE TEMPLAR