Woodgrain and Digital Photography

[NoHope587]

As I wait for the drillers to finish drilling the first well I have had a chance to play around with my camera. I think I am approaching the limits of what this four year old beast is capable of.
Any tips on how to improve the shots are more than welcome.

Anyway here is the closest representation to actuality I have been able to product on this coin so far.

http://www.mycoins.us/forum/DSC05434.JPG

[Triggersmob]

Great photography, Richard.

You have really captured the detail.

[Paint Your Wagon]

I am myself playing with a canon dslr 30 D at the moment
Your white balance if slightly off and you posted at 72 dpi whereas computers sees 96 dpi so you lose visual coherence because you do not match computer resolution .
I have for the moment not found out why but my camera does the same and generates 72 dpi pictures at best jpeg setting which in my opinion is useless with a good minitor you need 96 dpi
I have RAW capability but have not used that yet

[Paint Your Wagon]

I finally save my pics at 300 dpi max jpeg quality because 300 is printer quality and on screen you can go 300% bigger without any loss of detail
You would not guess but three full spectrum lights like 180 watts at 95% color factor at 6000 Kelvin were used for this pic

[NoHope587]

Thanks for the tips will try changing the resolution to 96. I have very little control over the white balance. I set it before each shot but have no feature to change it in the editing software. I would love to shoot in raw but the camera has a unique file format SFR that none of my editing programs will read. At least none I have here.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Thanks for the tips will try changing the resolution to 96. I have very little control over the white balance. I set it before each shot but have no feature to change it in the editing software. I would love to shoot in raw but the camera has a unique file format SFR that none of my editing programs will read. At least none I have here.

Problems start when daylight is a significant proportion of lighting coming on the coin
So you either have to make pictures at night or with dense draperies and then the whitebalance should be allright
Or you have to override daylight by brute force like I do with three times 60 watts at 6000 K which is daylight at noon temperature
The picture you posted is jpeg format my photoshop can easily reset white balance but the problem is you got a shift on the bottom left and not on the top right
So I guess conflicting lighting is present .
I bought the book Numismatic Photography by Mark Goodman that one of our knights advised . The only surprise was he advocates a stop of like 7 to 10 whereas I prefered 12 to 16 in the past photographing running dogs . But you really need like a 150 mm lense to benefit completely from the book and I am operating a zoom 20 to 55 with a cheap screw on 3 diopters filter

[NoHope587]

Resolution changed to 96dpi

[Paint Your Wagon]

Resolution changed to 96dpi

I have the impression the picture is sharper now

[Triggersmob]

I would like to see both pics together, to see if you can tell the difference.

[Paint Your Wagon]

I would like to see both pics together, to see if you can tell the difference.

Very difficult because the posted picture is allread 50 wider then screen size and reducing both to screensize would automatically improve quality
What may be possible is to post half or less of each pictures side by side

[Paint Your Wagon]

Ok info
f 2.2 should be 7 at least
focal 15.3 should be 50 mm or better if possible
Iso speed 64 very strange 100 -200 - 400 are the most common and even the professionals use not less then 100 sensitivity

[Paint Your Wagon]

The interpolation in photoshop is so good only the histogram is smoother on the 96 vs the 72
Now remember with LCD screens the setting of your screen determines the color and the program the smoothness
This was not true on the old canon type deep videos . There green was green and not yellow green or blue green
I show part of the 96 and 72 side by side but because fo Photoshop I virtually see no difference ( I will try to get the histograms)

[Paint Your Wagon]

You can see there is a sublte improvement a little more smootheness and a little more information
But everything considerd with a very large format not worth the trouble ( unless you post pics on ebay the blowing up a 96 dpi gives you a lot more the a 72 )

[NoHope587]

Thanks for all the tips and info Paint Your Wagon.
I am kind of limited in what I can do as I am on a drill ship and as you would expect there is a fair amount of Vibration from the engines, thruster etc. I am also fairly limited in my lighting options though I have put the call out to see if anyone onboard has a daylight bulb in their cabin that they could lend me. The Picture posted was taken using just natural light through a window. I have a light ring for my lens but forgot to bring the correct adapter ring. I have access to various LED flashlights which I will try next. I will try setting the Iso manually and the F to 7.

Thanks once again for your help.

[Triggersmob]

I can't tell any difference in the two pics.

Thanks for the info PYW.
All these camera setting are to complicated for me, I just switch to macro, set it on auto and snap the pic.
They seem to come out reasonably good.

This was the last photo I took, any suggestions would be welcome..

[NoHope587]

Just one more try and I will stop bugging you all.
I tried a few things mainly setting the ISO manually to 400, cant find a way to adjust the f stop.  Also rigged up the ring light and diffused it.
I was happy with the colour and detail before as I though it was the best I would get out of my camera. I was wrong.
This time It not only captured the colour and detail the subtle iridescent blue toning on the coin shows as well.
For your Viewing pleasure my best purchase this year finally in its true light as it were.

http://www.mycoins.us/forum/DSC05439.JPG

[Triggersmob]

That's a huge pic, beautiful toning though.

Great job. You can have a break for Xmas now.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Just one more try and I will stop bugging you all.
I tried a few things mainly setting the ISO manually to 400, cant find a way to adjust the f stop.  Also rigged up the ring light and diffused it.
I was happy with the colour and detail before as I though it was the best I would get out of my camera. I was wrong.
This time It not only captured the colour and detail the subtle iridescent blue toning on the coin shows as well.
For your Viewing pleasure my best purchase this year finally in its true light as it were.

I like to help people when I have time so if you are bored or so inclined show more pictures we can all learn ( I from trying to find the "mistake" )
I analysed the new picture and the histogram is much improved because the lightbalance is very good no more whiteproblem

Two obeservations your F is 2 much too low ; you need more light I am sorry to say(that will automatically up your F unless your camera program prefers to reduce exposure time first in which case you still need MORE light )
Also I think on the second picture you were not completely parallel with the coin which at F2 is crucial
So in a nutshell ; if you get more watts this camera of yours will surprise you and yes the second picture is vastly better

I put the two pictures side by side at 300 dpi to get them on one page without loss of detail

[Paint Your Wagon]

ps
The first thing your camera did with your lighting was increas shutterspeed from one fifht of a second to one fifthieths of a second
So the improvement is shutterspeed and no whitebalance problem

[Paint Your Wagon]

I can't tell any difference in the two pics.

Thanks for the info PYW.
All these camera setting are to complicated for me, I just switch to macro, set it on auto and snap the pic.
They seem to come out reasonably good.

This was the last photo I took, any suggestions would be welcome.

Your picture gave no camera name nor shooting settings ( maybe the pic was manipulated )
An instantaneous autocontrast and autosharpening improved the quality of the pic for a photograder : I do not know you like it better because the
sharpened pic highlights the defects

[Paint Your Wagon]

I took ten minutes to change contrast and color without sharpening and like the result better
So you need to improve contrast before or after . Because of lack of info I do not know why color changing was necessary
Maybe I made the result better then reality 

[Triggersmob]

Thank you PYW.

I might have to play with the editing software a bit more.
I use Microsoft Office Picture Manager.
My camera is a FujiPix S5600.

I do like that last pic, very nice.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Thank you PYW.

I might have to play with the editing software a bit more.
I use Microsoft Office Picture Manager.
My camera is a FujiPix S5600.

I do like that last pic, very nice.

Thanks
I tried microsoft office mgr autocorrect first but did not like the coin being too bleak (attached)
So I did a full edit in Photoshop

[Paint Your Wagon]

What I meant is you need F between 7 and 10 if you make close ups ( best compromise between depth and non edge blurring )
You need the maximum lense spec you got if it is a zoom ; ideally 100 mm but I only get to an equivalent of 88 mm myself
You need at least a speed of 1/100 seconds higher is allways better and a tripod helps
You need max 400 ASA sensitivity to avoid grainyness . If you go to extreme close ups you need 100 but that means an orphul lot of lighting
I use 400 which I have done for 40 years on a non digital and up to 20x30 cm print out you see no grainness
For me the most difficult is to get all that watts lighting without reflection especially when the coin is in a capsule

I took like 40 pictures to have 5 that were good

[NoHope587]

After a lot of playing I found out how to adjust the F on the camera. l also rounded up a couple of desk lights in addition to the lens ring light.
Unfortunately I am not sure I like the results half as much as I was getting with just the ring light and low F. What am I doing wrong?
I suspect the vibration of the vessel has a lot to do with it.

http://www.mycoins.us/forum/1864Obv300dpi.JPG
http://www.mycoins.us/forum/1864Rev300dpi.JPG

[Paint Your Wagon]

I am happy to say the vibration of the vessel is not the problem
You got again a blue shift meaning the white balance is off again
Two possibilities ; never mix several types of lighting ,; allthough this is a general rule I do not think the problem is located there
I saw you use point measurement . My camera offers four types of measurement  ; yours probably two at least . Try to find how to set
balanced or multiple point or averaged or whathever your camera calls it ( it is mainly used for focus and colorbalance)
Point measurements mean that only a single point is used for whitebalance and exposuretime and F and focus etc
That is only a good idea for very uniform objects but never for coins close up
I use average of nine points for measurement and sharpness controll
If you lost the operating manual of your camera the operating manuals can be found on line
Your picture is sharp so no vibratin problem and the F insures depth so no depth problem

[NoHope587]

Thanks Paint Your Wagon will try to find the right button to change the multipoint function. it supposedly has eight sensors. So I will find the setting that uses all 8.
This is keeping me entertained. I hope I am not putting everyone to sleep with all my shots of the same coin. The only frustrating thing is I am limited to uploading about 2 shots a day due to bandwidth constraints on my satlink.

Oh and Merry Christmas to you all.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Thanks Paint Your Wagon will try to find the right button to change the multipoint function. it supposedly has eight sensors. So I will find the setting that uses all 8.
This is keeping me entertained. I hope I am not putting everyone to sleep with all my shots of the same coin. The only frustrating thing is I am limited to uploading about 2 shots a day due to bandwidth constraints on my satlink.

Oh and Merry Christmas to you all.

Merry Christmas
ps if you crop the pics to 1000 by 1000 pixels you will have smaller files without loosing any info for our use here
pps Old Dan is happy watching the flock of sleeping damsels around him

[NoHope587]

I have not forgotten this post I have just been kind of busy. I am also playing with my cameras settings.  If I go about 4.3 on the F then the image becomes grainy. I tried a 1000watt halogen as my light source everyone had a good laugh when I blew the circuit breakers on the bridge. I will have to settle for a 30watt compact fluorescent bulb and a lot of aluminum foil for a reflector cage.  Once i seen any improvement on my images rest assured I will post here.

[Paint Your Wagon]

I have not forgotten this post I have just been kind of busy. I am also playing with my cameras settings.  If I go about 4.3 on the F then the image becomes grainy. I tried a 1000watt halogen as my light source everyone had a good laugh when I blew the circuit breakers on the bridge. I will have to settle for a 30watt compact fluorescent bulb and a lot of aluminum foil for a reflector cage.  Once i seen any improvement on my images rest assured I will post here.

Real grainy photos can only be due to an ISO or rather ASA bigger then 400
400 has been my standard for 40 years in films and now electronically
an ASA of 1600 will give you grainy
If F bigger then 4.3 gives the impression of grainy it is lack of light upping the exposure time and with a larger exposure time the shaking and vibrating of your platform will be visible
I use full daylight plus 3 times 80 watts fullspectrum lights and barely squeeze by on all parameters 

Anyway all the best for 2009 and I will wait for your next Shot

[NoHope587]

OK Had a few days in dock.
Played with the f Settings and tried again.

Please don't tell me I need more light I have already made an enemy of the ships electrician by installing some new wiring and borrowing a 1,000 watt halogen light....

Not sure I like this any better but it does kind of show that the picture makes the coin. At first glance between this and my previous attempt you could be forgiven into thinking they were different coins...


http://www.mycoins.us/forum/DSC05572.JPG

[Paint Your Wagon]

This is definitely the best your camera can do
You got rid of the irksome white shine on the raised edges of the effigy
You got rid of the purple spots
If you save this in a 300 dpi png or lossles form it should print beautifully
Only improvement possible but I do not think that can be done without a DSLR is too raise your lamp to be directly above the coin without the camera throwing a shadow . Professionals with lots of money buy a lighted background that illuminates all shadows but I think a thing like that costs more then your camera . Conversely at this F8 setting you might try to put the light over the coin and to shoot the picture under an angel
with F8 you might find a focus for the total coin .
I played around some in photoshop but your picture is the best the camera can make

[Triggersmob]

I would like to see how it looks on a black background.
I find that tends to make the edge detail stand out and it gets rid of the shadow.

[NoHope587]

Will see what i can do....

[Paint Your Wagon]

I prefer blue violet since that is the complementary color to yellow orange which in color theory like in painting is very important
to generate something pleasing
Of course white and black are no colors but states of purity of the paint or ink or color

[Paint Your Wagon]

This blue is my favourite

[NoHope587]

Here you go..
I think this represents the best I will ever get out of my current Camera. It Certainly beats 90% of the Pictures you see on eBay. Thank you PYW for all the tips. The only problem is now I want to go out and buy a DSLR to see what improvements I can get out of it. Now I have the set up as good as its going to get out here I am am going to attempt to write my new web site with some nicer pictures.

[Paint Your Wagon]

I got a DSLR and the possibilities and problems come hand in hand
You get RAW format and more distance away from the coin for the light to reach it , but the coin will not fill your photo
The lighting problem stays with up to three powerfull sources of which one straight above the coin without glare
If you take an all purpose lense you will need a set of lense magnifiers to get as close as 5 inch in focus
Otherwise you will have to pay a large amount for a 100 mm or 150 mm dedicated lense

I went with a 20 to 55 mm zoom which on my Canon DSLR has a 1.6 factor cause the receptor is small so I get 88 mm equivalent
And sofar I got a 3 diopters lense getting me within 5 inch of the coin which is 20 mm coin will fill the picture ( napoleon )
I will have to buy the full lense set ; and whilst control is total - I shoot pictures with a mouseclick straigth to my computer -
I do not want to spend another 600$ for a dedicated 150mm lense .
Also the learning curve starts over

[Triggersmob]

Great looking pic, Richard. Although the background wasn't black enough, so you still have a shadow.

PYW, I like that that blue, looks fantastic.

I hope I don't sound critical, these pics are far better than mine.

[Paint Your Wagon]

Great looking pic, Richard. Although the background wasn't black enough, so you still have a shadow.

PYW, I like that that blue, looks fantastic.

I hope I don't sound critical, these pics are far better than mine.

I was colormatching specialist graduated at Princeton NY
For some time I installed and started up a colormatching computer and system to match plastic color with leather color amongst others for Mercedez
Because of this knowledge and my neighbour is japanese : me ; her and my wife painted on silk for ten years . So you need to know about the three basic colors and the color wheel and color complementary colrs and triangle colors and quadrangual colors ( ITTEN )
Anyway after I painted like 120 ties and gave away 40 And painted like 40 scarfs and gave away 15 And painted 7 wallmounted paintings not giving away any . I just stopped when I was fired the 2nd time . To much standing and bending whilst painting and no motivation left since I know I can design and colormatch and execute . All my pictures are printed analogs otherwise I would show some .
Orange and purple are complementary colors in the cycle of Itten