KOTCT
Worldwide Coins & Bank Notes => European Coins => Topic started by: Groat on July 10, 2014, 08:40:42 AM
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Britain has a tradition of latinising the names of her kings for use on coins, for example:
| English | Latinised |
| George | GEORGIVS |
| Edward | EDWARDVS |
| William | GULIELMVS |
| Charles | CAROLVS |
Even our most recent King, George VI, who ruled into the 1950s, was on the coins as GEORGIVS.
I don't think it happens with queens so much. At least, the Elizabeths never changed, Alexandrina Victoria already sounds Roman, but "Anne" was on the coins as "ANNA" which may be an exception.
Let's assume that Prince Charles will eventually become King Charles III. Will the coins say CAROLVS III?
My own guess would be that they will simply use CHARLES III, to prevent confusion and possible outcry. My reasoning is that most people alive today were born in this second Elizabethan age - our future lies entirely on people who, when Charles ascends, will be seeing a king on their coins for the first time in their lives. The purpose behind using CAROLVS (if there is one - edit: well I suppose it's probably because of the rest of the sentence, "Dei Gratia" etc. is in Latin) will be lost on most of us. National identity and pride will be an important theme in the media during the early days of Charles' reign and corporations and governments will seek to capitalise on that, so they will probably do the populist thing.
I don't think it matters much, but it would mark the end of a tradition that goes back many centuries!
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Interesting question, Daniel. There is a possibility that he may use a name other than Charles too.
I guess time will tell. It would be nice to continue the tradition, but I won't lose sleep over it :)
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I would hope that they would keep the latin name tradition going, I think its pretty cool that it is still used like it was hundreds of years ago. As far as the meaning being lost on most people, I would guess that 99% of Americans would not be able to tell you what E. Pluribus Unum (One from many) means, even though it is on our coins. I bet 50% don't even know that it is on our coins.
It seems that many of the coins from around the world use latin. Do you think most of the people in the UK know the meaning of the Latin abbreviations on most of your coins? They are pretty easy to look up online, but I wonder if they are they common knowledge for the people who use the coins everyday?
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I doubt many people know that it's abbreviated Latin, let alone what it means. I can't speak for the majority however. I forget what it means all the time!
If I can speculate, I would say that the abbreviations are just noise to most people (if they even look at the coin), but everybody recognises the face and name of Elizabeth II. That's why I imagine people might be bemused about seeing CAROLVS III instead of CHARLES III!
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British monarchs do not always use their first name, or the name that the public becomes familiar with as crown prince, once they become king. George VI was previously known as "Prince Albert", as was Edward VII before him. Prince Charles' full name is "Charles Philip Arthur George". In theory, he could pick any of those four names as his reign-name. "King Philip" still carries Spanish overtones and "King Arthur" would be just plain pretentious, so we can safely rule both of those out. "Charles" also has negative connotations, with Charles I being the only British monarch to lose his throne and his head in a popular revolt. Prince Charles has gone on the record saying he would prefer naming himself "King George VII", after his grandfather. But we won't know for sure until he actually becomes king.
All of which is beside the OP's question: will Latinized names still appear on British coins?
The only other Commonwealth realm on which Latin appears on the coinage is Canada. Since Canada no longer has official Latin titles, I suspect Latin will be dropped from the coinage there for the next monarch.
The Latin titles for the Queen are still current in Britain, so there is no need to discontinue their use there. However, Latin titles have become unfashionable, as has the language itself, despite recent announcements by certain members of government to try to restore Latin to the education curriculum. Apart from the occasional motto, only three countries still use Latin routinely on their coinage: Vatican City, Switzerland (where using Latin is a space-saver since there isn't room on coins for all four official languages) and Great Britain. It's possible that pragmatism will trump tradition in this instance.
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British monarchs do not always use their first name, or the name that the public becomes familiar with as crown prince, once they become king. George VI was previously known as "Prince Albert", as was Edward VII before him. Prince Charles' full name is "Charles Philip Arthur George". In theory, he could pick any of those four names as his reign-name. "King Philip" still carries Spanish overtones and "King Arthur" would be just plain pretentious, so we can safely rule both of those out. "Charles" also has negative connotations, with Charles I being the only British monarch to lose his throne and his head in a popular revolt. Prince Charles has gone on the record saying he would prefer naming himself "King George VII", after his grandfather. But we won't know for sure until he actually becomes king.
All of which is beside the OP's question: will Latinized names still appear on British coins?
The only other Commonwealth realm on which Latin appears on the coinage is Canada. Since Canada no longer has official Latin titles, I suspect Latin will be dropped from the coinage there for the next monarch.
The Latin titles for the Queen are still current in Britain, so there is no need to discontinue their use there. However, Latin titles have become unfashionable, as has the language itself, despite recent announcements by certain members of government to try to restore Latin to the education curriculum. Apart from the occasional motto, only three countries still use Latin routinely on their coinage: Vatican City, Switzerland (where using Latin is a space-saver since there isn't room on coins for all four official languages) and Great Britain. It's possible that pragmatism will trump tradition in this instance.
Great answer. Sounds like there may be a seventh King George on the cards...err...coins - if it's left mostly up to the heir apparent. I didn't know that!
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WHEN TAKING LATIN IN SCHOOL I WAS TOLD THAT 60% OF ENGLISH COMES FROM LATIN AND TODAY I CAN SEE THE LATIN IN MANY WORDS AND CAN USUALLY UNDERSTAND -----THE SAME IS WITH ROMAN NUMERALS---I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED PLAYING AROUND WITH THEM BUT THEY APPEAR ON ONLY A FEW COINS--------------LET'S KEEP SOME OF THE OLD WAYS.........
E. PLURIBUS UNUM-----FROM MANY ONE--------MMXIV..............
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I think he should go with King Arthur...would be cool to have a real coin with that on it.
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I think we should go straight to King William, skip Charles completely.
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I think we should go straight to King William, skip Charles completely.
I SECOND THE MOTION!
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I think we should go straight to King William, skip Charles completely.
Unfortunately, however much we (or even he) might prefer this, it isn't an option unless he dies before his mum does. The monarchy is a hereditary dictatorship and the rules of inheritance are unambiguous and inflexible. Charles can abdicate the throne straight away after becoming king, but he doesn't have the choice of never becoming king in the first place. He could do something drastic to disqualify himself from the throne (like become a Catholic), but any such action could possibly disinherit his children as well.
Now, the rules of inheritance are set by Parliament; Parliament can change the rules to disinherit Charles if it so chooses (and under the Statues of Westminster, each Commonwealth Realm is obliged to simultaneously pass changes to the succession laws, otherwise you'd have the awkward situation where different countries recognize different heirs to the throne - a situation the British royal family has been keen to avoid since the Hannover debacle). However, the Queen must give assent to any changes to the laws and she has made it clear that neither she herself nor her son Charles should ever abdicate from their duties. She would never assent to any such changes.
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Bummer! :(
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I think he should go with King Arthur...would be cool to have a real coin with that on it.
It would be cool on the coins but as Sap says it would be so arrogant that he'd be opening himself up to decades of constant satirisation.
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WHEN TAKING LATIN IN SCHOOL I WAS TOLD THAT 60% OF ENGLISH COMES FROM LATIN AND TODAY I CAN SEE THE LATIN IN MANY WORDS AND CAN USUALLY UNDERSTAND -----THE SAME IS WITH ROMAN NUMERALS---I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED PLAYING AROUND WITH THEM BUT THEY APPEAR ON ONLY A FEW COINS--------------LET'S KEEP SOME OF THE OLD WAYS.........
E. PLURIBUS UNUM-----FROM MANY ONE--------MMXIV..............
since I speak 5 languages I believe what I was told at school
there are two language groups in europe
Latin - French-Italian-Spanish the Latin group
German - Dutch-Flemish-English ( i believe they called it the anglo saxon group )
For instance Church is in old Eglish Kirk and in flemish Kerk and in German Kirche
Also I worked in Denmark and I could follow a conversation because of the flemish associated
words
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Britain has a tradition of latinising the names of her kings for use on coins, for example:
| English | Latinised |
| George | GEORGIVS |
| Edward | EDWARDVS |
| William | GULIELMVS |
| Charles | CAROLVS |
Even our most recent King, George VI, who ruled into the 1950s, was on the coins as GEORGIVS.
I don't think it happens with queens so much. At least, the Elizabeths never changed, Alexandrina Victoria already sounds Roman, but "Anne" was on the coins as "ANNA" which may be an exception.
Let's assume that Prince Charles will eventually become King Charles III. Will the coins say CAROLVS III?
My own guess would be that they will simply use CHARLES III, to prevent confusion and possible outcry. My reasoning is that most people alive today were born in this second Elizabethan age - our future lies entirely on people who, when Charles ascends, will be seeing a king on their coins for the first time in their lives. The purpose behind using CAROLVS (if there is one - edit: well I suppose it's probably because of the rest of the sentence, "Dei Gratia" etc. is in Latin) will be lost on most of us. National identity and pride will be an important theme in the media during the early days of Charles' reign and corporations and governments will seek to capitalise on that, so they will probably do the populist thing.
I don't think it matters much, but it would mark the end of a tradition that goes back many centuries!
I do not know why but Belgium issued a Carolus and a Karolus
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carolus
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IN AMERICA THERE ARE A FEW LATIN PHRASES THAT MANY HAVE HEARD OF-----------SEMPER FIDELIS (ALWAYS FAITHFUL) SHOERTENED TO "SEMPER FI"--THE MARINES QUOTE...............E. PLURIUS UNUM ON OUR MONEY AND RHE QUOTE BY JOHN WILKES BOOTH AS HE SHOT LINCOLN :SIC SEMPER TYRANIS"------THUS BE IT ALWAYS TO TYRANTS-----LOOSE TRANSLATION AND IT HAS BEEN ARGUED THAT HE NEVER SAID THAT.
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Here is a silver round from the Silver Bullet Silver Shield series that i thought of when you mentioned Sic Semper Tyranis. They may not be coins, but there are quite a few cool designs in this series. A little funner way to collect silver than government bullion, and the premium is about the same as silver eagles when they first come out.